I’m okay instilling patriotism in young children, even by rote. Let them choose differently as they become adults. Whatever our adult discourse on the subject, it’s all over the head of the average six-year old. “Say your Pledge and memorize your multiplication tables, because we say so … it’ll make America strong”.
I never worried about the USA being invisible …
I’m not. It’s a barbaric, oppressive, destructive emotion.
A love of one’s country is no more barbaric or destructive than a love of… Steely Dan. It does not imply blindness to the faults of one’s country, nor disparagement of or superiority to other countries.
I’ve seen videos of Tea Party functions where they do it. And city council meetings, etc. It’s very unsettling. It bother me as a student and it bothers me more now. Do any other countries have something similar (outside of North Korea)?
There are many reasons to admire, or even love, the United States. I, also, am “okay with instilling patriotism in young children.” I object, however, to the Pledge. Tell your six year old what is good about the U.S., and to some extent, what it’s problems are and have been. I would never expect a child to have to (or be “encouraged” to) recite a stupid, mindless, and offensive pledge.
How about this for an alternative:
I’ll learn to work the saxophone
I’ll play just what I feel
Drink Scotch whisky all night long
And die behind the wheel
They got a name for the winners in the world
I want a name when I lose
They call Alabama the Crimson Tide
Call me Deacon Blues
Kinda says it like it is.
Yeah, I get a little freaked out when adults say the pledge. It just seems like something out of Nazi Germany. I’ve taken a solemn pledge never to say the pledge again in my life. I’m emulating Washington and Lincoln, neither of them ever said the pledge in their lives.
That’s hyperbole, but there is something very unsettling about the pledge. I’ve recounted many times on these boards how horrified I was when my 10th grade class stood up to say it on my first day in American school. It reminded me of nothing so much as Chinese kids saluting Mao.
Cite?
As an outsider, it looks a little creepy to me. But the UK rarely does patriotism. We don’t have Union Flags around much. Most schools don’t have one to lovingly pledge allegiance to. I think we associate patriotism with far-right nationalism to some extent. Of course it’s different when there are special occasions, although the majority of us don’t really even have a national day that’s actually celebrated or really even noted.
I came here from the UK, which is probably why I found it so unsettling. As far as I can remember, the only even vaguely similar thing I ever had to do in English schools was sing the national anthem once a year.
I was taught the Pledge in a segregated school, so when I looked around, yes, it looked like there was Liberty and Justice for all. All I could see., anyway. By the way, there was no mention of God in it then, either.
I want my 5-year-old to know that one of the great things that America stands for is that you don’t have to believe in God unless you want too. (Shh, don’t tell the Republicans.;))
So the “under God” recitation they’re forcing on her in school kind of bugs me. Maybe I should teach her to start adding “…including gays and atheists” after “liberty and justice for all”. You know, for balance.
The problem is, that’s rarely the way it works in practice. Especially because people are quite talented at coming up with reasons why supporting what your country is doing at a given moment is perfectly compatible with one’s devotion to Christ.
IMHO, Christian churches need to stop muddying the waters of God and country. I expect it from the fundies, because their alleged faith is basically a tribal totem that fits perfectly well with their loyalty to America as they think America ought to be. But even what used to be called mainstream churches have an American flag up by the pulpit, observe things like Memorial Day and Independence Day in boosterish ways, and stuff like that.
Churches need to de-confuse people about this sort of thing, by abandoning the use of flags and other patriotic symbols, using patriotic occasions as an opportunity to remind people of the difference between what Christianity is about and what a nation is about, and reminding them of the ultimate incompatibility between serving Christ and allegiance to a nation.
" … and Muslims and Communists" too.
Yer old, dude! I’m turning 60, and ‘under God’ was put into the Pledge in the year I was born, so that the kiddies would know the difference between us and those godless Commies. 
This is another of my big problems with the Pledge. If genuinely pledging one’s allegiance is a big deal (and I’d say it is; having divided allegiances is generally regarded as a source of untrustworthiness), then it should be said by adults, and not kids.
And if it’s a triviality, along the lines of which sports teams you root for, then why say it at all?
Don’t forget that for the first 50 some-odd years of its existence, the Pledge did not include the phrase “under God”. That was added during the Red scare of the early 1950s as a slap in the face to the dirty, godless, heathen Commies and we have been stuck with it ever since.
As a cub scout leader, I say the pledge (along with the boys) at every meeting. It doesn’t bother my conscience at all.
The pledge is allegiance to the flag, and to the Republic for which it stands. I infer from the text that the allegiance is to our flag/nation above the flag/nation of other countries, and I’m good with that – why would my allegiance be elsewhere? I’m certainly not declaring that my country is the best in the world, or that I value it above my allegiance to my family or my God.
The rest, as said above, is aspirational: we desire to be one Nation, indivisible, etc. etc. with liberty and justice for all.
I’m ambivalent about the ‘under God’ phrase. As a believer in God I can accept that as a statement of fact: this nation, like any nation of the earth, is subject to God. But I also sympathize with those who do not believe this, and I would prefer a pledge that asserts our commonality and not our differences. So if ‘under God’ were removed I wouldn’t really care. God’s provenance would continue as far as I was concerned, but the pledge itself would be more inclusive and “for all.”
Trouble is, those who are the most enthusiastic proponents of the pledge are in general NOT striving for liberty and justice for all. They’re perfectly fine with trying to suppress the votes of people who vote the “wrong” way or for denying building permits for mosques or for passing laws to allow people to pick a fight and shoot to kill.
Around here, The Pledge starts almost every government meeting. A few that didn’t used to now do.
It smacks of mindless, super-patriotism. If I don’t recite The Pledge every day to renew my vows, do I become a non-patriot? Just how long does one pledge recitation last?
Remember the mania of pledge-signing in Catch-22? We need some general saying, “Give everybody eat!”