The word miracle is most often used with a religious or spiritual connotation, but I was thinking the other day, doesn’t that seem a bit contradictory? Most followers of monotheistic religions believe that life is on a set path determined by the omniscient and omnipotent creator. But what’s so miraculous about an event that was already planned out?
In my mind, the real miracle is thinking that there is no God, and that everything- every event, every moment, simply us being here at all- is the end product of a series of trillion-to-one accidents. That’s a miracle. What’s so miraculous about someone beating cancer if it was all part of some arranged screenplay written by the Big Guy in the Sky?
I can’t speak for “most followers of monotheistic religions”, but I think it’s safe to say that the majority of Christians don’t believe this. Free will - the idea that we’re not on a set path, that we make genuine choices that affect our worldly and eternal lives - is an important element of the beliefs of most branches of the Christian church.
I know that Calvinism holds that everything is pre-ordained, but I don’t know which, if any, modern churches agree with this. I’m sure that someone here does, though.
I read on the website of a Christian adoption company that some modern churches do indeed believe that God has planned everything out, and thusly that no babies are accidents.
I agree with the OP’s take on it, either way.
These seem to be viewpoint-statements by preachers or other ranking figures in the various Christian denominations that support adoption.
The one called “Christian” (don’t ask me exactly what that means) doesn’t say this explicitly but mentions God’s “plan” (their word) for each fetus, implying very strongly that they believe God’s got something specific mapped out for the little guy’s life.
The Baptist view explicitly states that God has already decided what events will come to pass in the thing’s every waking moment.
The Orthodox one also implies strongly that God knows what’s up, although it seems wishy-washy on whether there’s some tiny degree of free will. It also uses nearly impenetrable grammar, so bring your machete and be ready to give it a few good hacks.
Not exactly. Calvinism teaches predestination and foreknowledge, which are not quite the same thing as preordination. Most (if not all) Calvinists do believe in human volition (i.e. the human ability to make moral choices), which means that not everything is pre-ordained.
A more thorough explanation would merit its own thread – and frankly, would be beyond my own meager abilities. However, it’s safe to say that Calvinism does not quite teach that every single event has been specifically preordained.
Meh. That site actually posts Rick Warren’s views, rather than any official Baptist pronouncement. (In fact, many of Warren’s harshest critics are Baptist pastors.)
Also, the article in question merely says that God has planned each event, rather than ordained them. This is a fine but important distinction, as planning allows for human volition, whereas outright preordination would not.
I don’t have time to go into great detail right now. Suffice to say that there is an abundance of reviews on the web (from both Baptist and non-Baptist sources) that complain about the liberties that Warren has taken with Biblical exegesis and official church teachings.
Duly noted. I must admit I’m fairly ignorant of the matter, but those were things I’d noticed in web-perusings recently and thought I’d dreck them up and toss them about.
For my money the whole predestination/no free will bit is crap. I cannot understand the mind of God but I really cannot see the point of God creating a universe where everything is on tracks. From beginning to end nothing can waver from the script God set out at the moment of creation. Just seems silly and a total waste of seven days on God’s part.
So, assuming free will is how things are and nothing is preordained then I do not think it is outside the realm of a religion that manufactures a mystical being like God to suppose that God might reach in and muck about once in awhile. Granted people toss about the word “miracle” casually but to me the real deal is something that happens that can have no earthly explanation.
Beating cancer is not a true miracle unless the cure occurred in less than a minute. Parting the Red Sea on the other hand I think qualifies. Turning people into a pillar of salt…that would be a miracle. The Chicago Cubs winning the World Series…well I guess even God may have limits.
Sounds right to me. Under normal circumstances the Universe functions according to a set of natural laws, presumably set by that God. Ocassionally, though, the God inserts a waiver or makes an exception and something happens that is contrary to the people’s understanding of those natural laws. That’s called a miracle.
Not if there’s far more than a trillion trials. With a big enough sample space, those events aren’t miracles, nor even accidents: They’re inevitable, somewhere or other.
I don’t think that God “inserts a waiver” or “makes an exception” to the natural laws of the universe. You’re more on target when you say that a miracle is “contrary to the people’s understanding…”
We do things every day (turn on light switches, drive cars, look at images on televisions and computers, etc.) that would have been considered bona fide miracles 500 years ago. I would imagine that God has a few technogical tricks up his sleeve that mankind hasn’t stumbled onto yet.
IANAC, but I believe the mainstream theology is that humans have free will, but God is omniscient and therefore already knows what the results of all those free will choices will be.
I think if miracles exist, then God must change his mind (at least on rare occasions). for example: God dictates that you are to die from cancer. You begin to exhibit signs of the disease…but your friends and family love you…so they pray to God (on your behalf). Your wife entreats God to save you…and promises to perform good works if he will save you. God ruminates…and decides to grant your wife’s wish. So, the cancer miraculously goes into remission…your doctor is amazed, and you are understandably relieved…although the local undertaker is pissed off! So, I would have to say, the Allmighty does (albeit rarely) change his mind! is this unfair or what? :smack:
And you know, ralph, the standard church answer to that is that it was not God changing his mind, but that God set up this situation from the start to show what great things he will do for those who have faith (and BTW in (small-o)rthodox Xtianity, all supplicatory prayer must carry the caveat of “IF it is your will, let this be so, but not my will but yours be done”). Which does leave the question of could he not show off his favor to that faithful, devoted wife w/o putting her through such a painful character-building exercise.
And FatBaldGuy, I dunno, if it is a real miracle by a real God as per the JCI understanding of one, then it is a temporary waving aside of natural laws by the God. The JCI God would not need to invoke Clarke’s Third Law.
