Is there a correlation between religiosity and addictive personality?

[Monstera_deliciosa]

@Qadgop the Mercotan

Cite that AA is explicitly religious?

This old agnostic/skeptic has fit comfortably within the spirituality of my chosen AA groups for many long years now, and have not noted injection of religion by AA as a whole. Some members may bring it with them, but in the groups I frequent they are not allowed to turn meetings into vehicles promoting religion.

I know an anecdote is not a cite, but I will offer this one up for whatever it is worth.

A few years back, I had a gentleman friend who decided he needed to return to AA to deal with his drinking. This man had been raised by atheist parents, but did not consider himself an atheist. When asked about his beliefs, he told me that he believed that there was something more than ourselves, something perhaps akin the concept of a “Great Spirit.”

Now one would think that this sort of belief would fit very nicely with the concept of a Higher Power or “God as we understood Him” , now wouldn’t you? Well it didn’t. My friend found AA to be uncomfortably religious in tone. He lived in NYC, where there are plenty of meetings availble, so he tried a number of them, since he knew the tone can vary from group to group. He found them all too religious for his comfort. He didn’t have internet access at the time, so he asked me to research more secular approaches for him. (To his credit, he planned to stick with AA until he found something else that suited him.) I don’t know what happened, since we lost touch when I got married.

[Qadgop_the_Mercotan]

@KayElCee

My friend found AA to be uncomfortably religious in tone. He lived in NYC, where there are plenty of meetings availble, so he tried a number of them, since he knew the tone can vary from group to group. He found them all too religious for his comfort.

Sadly this happens. I’m surprised to hear it happening in NYC where one has a broad broad range of meetings to choose from. I’ve had friends attend many meetings there and report a wide range of types of folks easily accepted.

AA as a whole does not approve of pushing of sectarian religion, as I noted earlier in quoting tradition 10. Some groups have actually been removed from the AA central office list of AA meetings if it is felt they are consistently violating this and/or other traditions.

I’ve never had much difficulty finding a meeting where I was comfortable working on my spiritual goals (i.e. living closer to my ideals: more honest, patient, kinder, less selfish, etc).

[Monstera_deliciosa]

@Qadgop the Mercotan

Sadly this happens. I’m surprised to hear it happening in NYC where one has a broad broad range of meetings to choose from. I’ve had friends attend many meetings there and report a wide range of types of folks easily accepted.

AA as a whole does not approve of pushing of sectarian religion, as I noted earlier in quoting tradition 10. Some groups have actually been removed from the AA central office list of AA meetings if it is felt they are consistently violating this and/or other traditions.

I’ve never had much difficulty finding a meeting where I was comfortable working on my spiritual goals (i.e. living closer to my ideals: more honest, patient, kinder, less selfish, etc).

Bolding mine.

I don’t think my friend had trouble finding acceptance from the other members. I think he found the religious emphasis inherent in the steps uncomfortable, as opposed to finding the people unwelcoming. Sectarianism was not the problem.

I’ve been thinking about this a lot during the day, and found myself wondering if it comes down to perceptions and upbringing. You have often mentioned the extremely strict Calvinist milieu in which you were brought up, though you refer to yourself as a skeptic now. Juxtaposed with the views of those Calvinists, terms like “higher power” and “God as you understand him,” would considered “freethinking” by comparison.

My friend on the other hand, though “spiritual” now, was raised in an atheist home, and his father apparently, was quite hostile toward religion. In terms of that upbringing, the strong emphasis on the role of the “Higher Power” could seem very religious by comparison.

As for myself, I was brought up in a traditionally religious home, but one that was fairly open-minded and tolerant toward the religious views of others. I am an atheist now, and I cannot see six of those 12 original steps, as posted by Enter the Flagon as anything but religious, even if they do not promote a *specific *religion. When some people deny that AA is religious, that, in my opinion, is kind of like those folks who laughably claim that “under God” in the Pledge of Allegiance is not religious, or like those folks who try to get the Ten Commandments placed on public buildings by claiming their historical value. I’m not accusing you, QtM, of that sort of disingenuosness, but I am wondering if the extremely positive value that AA has brought to your life, could be blinding you to things that could be considered flaws by others.

[Qadgop_the_Mercotan]

I guess it depends on how one defines religion, KayElCee. And with so many definitions getting flung around, the argument can not really be settled as a whole. To me, it’s not religious, but I must admit it took me a long time of study and participation to come to that conclusion. I resented the frequent use of the word “God”, especially referring to “God” in the masculine pronoun. And frankly I think AA would be better if they were able to purge a lot of their present traditions that were handed down by various religions (including the excessive use of that “God” word). I think it’s foolish that so many groups use the “Lord’s Prayer” to close a meeting, as that has such a strong christian association.

But it comes down to the fact that AA is a voluntary, free, private, incredibly loosely organized association that accepts no outside contributions, and noone is (or should be) compelled to come, nor should it be compelled by anyone other than its own member, to change in any way.

I hate it when we have court-mandated folks show up, resentful and disruptive, and not ready to hear what we have to offer. I’m glad that there’s Rational Recovery and Secular Organization for Sobriety out there, to offer alternatives for other folks. I wish it were available to more.

But even the court-mandated folks have a choice. They weren’t “sentenced to AA” as I’ve heard so many say. They were told they could end up with a sentence with less or no jail/prison time if they participated in treatment programs and attendance at groups like AA, and they agreed to it. They could have said “no thanks”, done their time, and then gone on their way (usually to be back pretty quickly, in my experience). I’ve patients who have done just that.

Does AA have flaws? Of course. Do I wish it would take steps to more rapidly facilitate its moving ever more closely towards its spiritual principles and further away from various religiously-driven thinking? You betcha! Do a lot of AA members hinder motion in that direction? For sure!

But it’s still the best thing I’ve ever found to fill the void that was still there after I gave up alcohol and drugs well over 16 years ago. And if my going to a meeting a week for an hour and talking on a daily basis with real-life friends who also go to meetings translates into religiosity, then I was grossly misinformed as to what religiosity consists of.

FTR, I was never a Calvinist. My dad broke away from them when he married my mom, a Methodist. I grew up surrounded by Calvinism but definitely not of it, and proclaimed my own agnosticism in junior high (but did so very quietly, and not to my Grandma Mercotan. It’d have killed her, probably only days or weeks after she would have killed me).

Well, most of that stuff I just typed doesn’t belong in a GQ thread, but I’m not going to enter into the GD one on the topic, as I doubt I’ll change any minds (I don’t think I did last time I entered such a fray), and I’m content with the fact that I don’t know what makes it work for me, but it sure is working, after everything else I tried failed disastrously with terrible consequences for not only me, but my loved ones too.

Ta!

[Monstera_deliciosa]

Thanks for the reply, QtM.

And please understand that for me, even though I have little use for religion, referring to an organization as “religious” is not necessarily a criticism.