Is there a difference between "you could do better" and "this is beneath you"?

In My Humble Opinion
1

So, here’s the hypothetical. It’s not going to be as flowery as Skald’s, but that’s mainly because I don’t want him to send the bees after me.

Jimbo and Susie, a married couple a few years out of college, are discussing their mutual acquaintances whom they haven’t really kept up with outside of social media. One of these acquaintances is Tom. Tom graduated with a BS in the lucrative field of mumblemumble engineering and went on to get a master’s in the same subject. When I said the field is lucrative, I wasn’t kidding - the starting salary for an undergrad with that degree and no experience is about $75k, with his master’s and research experience Tom could probably be clearing six figures right out of school.

But Tom isn’t working in his chosen field; instead he’s taken a job as an after school tutor making a little less than $20k a year. Neither Jimbo nor Susie are quite sure why; he never indicated an interest in teaching when they knew him and he didn’t seem burned out on his degree of choice. Nevertheless, tutoring is what he does - and as he’s flirting with the poverty line, he’s since moved back into his parent’s basement, is still driving his 15 year old beater, and his girlfriend left him. (She’s friends with Susie, apparently “ambition” was cited when they broke up).

Anyway, Jimbo and Susie are discussing this and the conversation turns thusly:

Jimbo: Well, I just hope Tom eventually does better for himself.
Susie: Wait, are you saying he’s having some moral failing by tutoring?
Jimbo: No, there’s nothing wrong with tutoring, plenty of people do that, but it’s not really a career. I’m just saying he could do better for himself.
Susie: So you’re saying tutoring is beneath him.
Jimbo: Aw, c’mon, that’s not what I said, I just said he could be doing better. I don’t think it’s some ethical fault to live with your parents or drive an old car, but why not work in your field and have a career instead of depending on others for housing and living in fear of your car breaking down?
Susie: So you DO think tutoring is beneath him!
Jimbo: No, I just think he can be doing better.
Susie: And what’s the difference between “he can do better” and “what he’s doing now is beneath him?”
Jimbo: Oh, of course there’s a difference, it’s, um, well you see, ah, hrm…
At that point the smoke alarm goes off (apparently somebody forgot to set a timer after putting the pizza in the oven), and the conversation ends. But Susie’s last question still tickles the back of Jimbo’s mind: Is there a difference between thinking someone could be doing better for themselves and thinking that what they’re doing now is beneath them?

2

Seems like there’s two separate things here, really.

  1. Is there a difference?
  2. If the answer to (1) is yes, is this distinction meaningful in this particular case?

My answers:

  1. Yes
  2. No

For (1). Say Tom has a job in that lucrative field. And that people to fill such positions are in high demand. But Tom’s job is with a horrible boss and inept corporate management. He isn’t paid particularly well compared to his peers and he’s given mostly busy work. He could certainly “do better” in terms of finding the same job but with better pay, more fulfilling tasks, and competent managers. That would be better all around.

For (2). In this particular case, there’s no distinction being made. “do better” is merely code for “I’m judging your life choices and find them lacking”. Rather than looking at two theoretically equivalent things (the same job at different companies), a value judgment is being made about the value of a particular career field compared to a different career field. Or if not a value judgment about the career field, a value judgment about how pay should influence life decisions. That’s not necessarily wrong but it is considerably more subjective and easily arguable based on one’s personal value system.

3

‘Do better’ means just that, you’re settling for less, but it’s like taking a job for less than you can make elsewhere, but it’s still a decent job. ‘Beneath you’ is more serious, it’s like taking a job you are overqualified for, for much less money than you could make, and something where you harm your future career advancement opportunities.

But in some circumstances it means the same thing, it is a subjective opinion.

4

Agreed. When I (with a degree in chemical engineering) worked as a lab tech, I could do better, at least in theory, but I certainly didn’t consider the job was beneath me. My coworker (with a degree in chemistry) did consider the job beneath her. At the end of our short first contract/evaluation period, her contract wasn’t turned into a permanent one, mine was; less than a year later, that renewal led to a promotion into what is now my field (SAP consultant, working at the international level). I’m doing all right, thank you.

In this particular case, the two people in the OP consider the job is beneath their friend - the friend doesn’t seem to. Could he do better? Maybe, but - can he do better by his definition of “better”? That, we don’t know.

5

That’s kind of where I’m at right now; I could definitely do better in terms of pay/prestige, if that’s what I was interested in, but my current job’s not beneath me, in the sense of I’m wildly overqualified or over-experienced. A little bit sure, but not enough for “beneath me”, like first-line helpdesk work would be.

6

Seems to me “do better” is mostly an economic judgment whereas “beneath you” is a moral or ego-based judgment.

Echoing the posters above, I believe that makes the former more objective than the latter which is more subjective. But it’s a matter of gray degree, not of black-or-white kind.

A corollary to that is that a truly strictly objective statement is nonqualitative; the speaker isn’t (necessarily) asserting a preference for one over the other. A subjective statement is often heavily qualitative; the speaker definitely has a preference and is making it known.

I also think the differences are fuzzy in that different English speakers from different countries or social classes or eras might attach different or even contradictory nuances to these phrases.

7

In the UK we would have a different take on it because of our class structure

If you are doing work that would seem lower than your social status, then its beneath you -it still might be a stretch of your abilities. Imagine a Duke going out and digging a hole in the road - the Duke might not even be astute enough to understand the dangers of buried services and is not up to the task, but its still beneath him.

‘You can do better’ is almost the social reverse, you are doing the job of a road digger because that’s what your background puts you, but you have the ability to be the site supervisor if only you would push yourself that little bit more.

8

Pretty much this. If I was unemployed, I wouldn’t consider a job in (say) retail, stocking shelves to be “beneath me”. It’s not as though I’m too precious a flower to put boxes on shelves. But I would say I could “do better” than a $9/hr position and shouldn’t settle for such. Rather I should stock shelves and continue to look for more lucrative employment better suited for my skills and experience.

9

In an absolute sense, yes there is a difference.

In the context of the hypothetical, they might as well mean the same thing. The cincher is this sentence:

It’s subtle, but this smells of judgment and criticism. Clearly, Jimbo values self-sufficiency and sees Tom as lacking in this area. This implies he sees him as not merely living up to his full potential, but as a loser-like leech.

10

“Tom could do better” is a statement about Tom, and might be nothing more than a benign musing (even if it’s not in this case, as noted by you with the face). “Tutoring is beneath him” is a statement about tutoring, and is clearly denigrating the tutoring position.

11

In Spain, a Duke who thought his hands were too delicate and purdy to dig a needed ditch would be described as “his rings might fall off”. It’s not a nice thing to say about anybody.

My experience with those in high social strata is that usually it’s the wannabes whose rings fall off; those who are truly secure in their position have no problem helping clean up the consequences of an accident in the factory they manage… or driving an ambulance.

12

Shortly after I began seeing one of my exes (Jim), we casually met one of his friends (Alan) and chatted for about 5 minutes. The following day, Jim mentioned “Alan called me this morning, and said he was sure you were a nice guy, but he thought I could do better.” Jim couldn’t understand why I was upset, not at Alan for saying this, but at Jim for telling me. It seemed to serve no purpose other than to hurt me.

Now, if Alan had said he thought I was beneath Jim, he would have been wrong. Jim was a bottom.

13

Jimbo and Susie could certainly do better. For instance, they could consider talking to Tom instead of behind his back.

14

That stopped being true long ago. A recent Lord Nelson was a police officer, for instance. A decade or so ago, a member of the royal family took up a job as a music teacher.

15

You think? Lets see a royal work as a care home assistant - its plenty worthy enough but somehow I doubt we will see this taken up as a career

The reality is that over the last few years, for whatever reasons, social mobility in the UK has declined - and that’s surprising given the huge expansion of higher education over the last two decades

16

Heh… brings to mind a line from My Favorite Year, went sort of like:

“Alan Swann, he’s beneath us”
“Of course he is, he’s a washed-up actor”
“No, I mean he’s beneath us, he’s hanging from the ledge!”

Yeah, really. Jimbo could just ask Tom how is he doing, and is he really enjoying this, and Susie would not need to be Tom’s offenderati proxy (or from just playing verbal gotcha, which is an alternative explanation for her response).

(And now I wonder, if Tom were to say “I’m good with this at this point in life, but am building up for my next step up in [a year, two, five]”, would Susie then turn around and say to him “What, you feel what you’re doing now is beneath you?”)

17

Yes:

and yes:

http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1755&dat=19810925&id=Gp0cAAAAIBAJ&sjid=DGgEAAAAIBAJ&pg=3217,4738910