For sure, there are femcels.
That being said, I want to emphasize that if we go by the literal definition “involuntarily celibate,” there are good incels and bad incels (of both genders.) One can be unable to find a mate for reasons that have nothing at all to do with being a nasty personality - being severely ugly, a dwarf, too old, a quadriplegic, etc.
That’s not what “incel” means though. You can always make a group larger if you completely redefine that group.
Note that generally those are two completely different definitions.
Being unmarried and abstaining from sexual intercourse are different. You can be married without having sex, and you can have sex without being married. Many incels would be fine with sex without marriage.
After the Panamanian woman and I broke up.I took a very long time to heal. During that time I was technically involuntarily celibate. In no other way did I fit the definition an incel. To identify as an incel is to have a worldview and set of beliefs that are hateful an toxic. It takes a lot more than wanting sex but not having any to be an incel.
Absolutely true. I mean, there have been long periods of my life where I was celibate against my will, at least partially because I have never been one to casually sleep with anyone. I’ve never had sexual relations with a person I didn’t have a romantic relationship with first. I don’t think there’s anything wrong with people who casually sleep with people, I’m just not wired that way.
But that’s different from the incel movement, which is extremely toxic and at times even dangerous. I expect that many people who are “good incels” as you state become negatively influenced when they find that community and find a place where they feel they can belong and commiserate.
I feel like there are incels and there are those who are involuntarily celibate. The “bad incels” are just incels. Those who embrace that label seem to have a depth of hatred - of self and of women- that makes them extraordinarily toxic.
The “good incels” in my experience don’t embrace that label and that community, and don’t deserve to grouped with them. They are just involuntarily celibate, not incels at all.
The term has morphed beyond its literal meaning. There are no good incels.
When I was a teen and very young man, I couldn’t get dates. For the most part it was because of having no confidence and very poor self esteem. I attributed it to women only wanting the athletic popular guys. The difference is that my conclusion was that I had drawn the short straw in life and it was bad luck, not that all women are shallow bitches. I wanted a sexual relationship and wasn’t able to get one but I wasn’t an incel (a term that didn’t exist at the time but the concept certainly did).
Yeah; it’s been a long time since “incel” just literally meant “involuntarily celibate” and nothing else. If it ever did.
That’s why on the matter of “female incels” I immediately brought up “women who really, really hate men”; “really, really hating women” is the defining characteristic of incels, not a lack of sex. The word for a man who is “involuntarily celibate” but doesn’t hate women is “lonely”.
Saying that incels are 30x more likely to be autistic than the general public doesn’t necessarily imply that incels = autism, or that autism = incel.
I do agree about the social skills part, but I think there’s more to it than that. Not only is there a social skill deficit and a certain blind spot about the absence of such skills, there’s also a large element of sour grapes and associated self-hatred that goes with seeing non-incel guys be successful.
I imagine it goes something like this (having known a few proto-incels back before it was a thing). “I can’t get laid. That guy over there is getting laid all the time (whether or not that’s true is irrelevant), why can he do that and I can’t?”
Then the blind spot kicks in. There’s no thinking about “Must be me; there’s something I’m doing or not doing that isn’t working. I need to adjust my behavior”.
And they jump straight to "Those women are shallow, and they always go for the ‘Chads’ because X, Y, and Z (all things that are ancillary to Chad’s possession of social skills, like clothes, haircut, looks, etc…) They also tend toward the discounting of non-Chad guys possessed of extremely good social skills who do get laid, despite being short, ugly, etc… and they do so by discounting the women they sleep with as ugly or whatever.
In short, they can’t figure out why they can’t get laid, and through a lack of introspection and/or influence of pernicious outside messages, they adhere to the idea that it’s the women’s fault, not their own. That’s probably why autistic men are more prone to it- they probably don’t pick up on the social skill angle at all, and don’t even realize it’s something they can be deficient in, or don’t understand the importance
That’s what I’m saying- where you turned inward and assumed it was something about you (which was almost certainly too harsh), they look outward because of that blind spot. That’s the crux of the issue - they externalize the problem, and in doing so, make it unsolvable. It just festers from there.
As the OP I do not restrict the female correlate of males who are “incel” as necessarily restricted to sexual activity, although a movement focused on that falls into the question asked.
It may be that there are no organized female social media groups bemoaning the societal inequities preventing them from finding hook ups, and instead social media groups bemoaning societal inequities dealing them out of relationships: “80% of men are only interested in relationships with 20% of the women …”?
Part of the question is if the similar frustration plays out differently as a function of gender. Do autistic females have a similar “support system” on line with its own set of mythologies for example?
FWIW I am NOT interested in another discussion about male incels. If possible.
He stated that, basically, it is easier for women than men to get sex when they want it. That was my way of basically agreeing with him. Pretty straight forward, really.
I strongly suspect them of leaving out of those videos all the men who say ‘no’.
Can a woman who will have sex with any man whatsoever get laid? Sure.
Can a woman, even a reasonably attractive one, have sex with almost any man she wants? No. I can personally flat out vouch for that: when I was young and getting hit on by enough men to be sure of the “reasonably attractive”, I also got turned down by multiple men who I did want, but they didn’t want me. And I wasn’t even asking any of the partnered ones.
Could a man who was really willing to have sex with any woman whatsoever get laid? Almost certainly; though some would have to ask more women than others.
Or simply not finding anybody who matches up well with you; especially if combined with being a late starter, who doesn’t become seriously interested in finding a partner until most people in their age group are already paired off. (That last part may actually be less of an issue for men, who are more likely to pair with somebody significantly younger.)
I don’t know how often it happens in real life, but there is the trope of single women saying of men that “all the good ones are taken”. That doesn’t carry the same hateful baggage as the male ‘incel’ community, but it does have a tinge of blaming others, and being jealous of other women’s successful relationships.
Oh sorry. I am having an off day.
From your use of the phrase “getting hit on” it sounds like you are talking about asking somebody out on a date not asking for sex.
We didn’t use the phrase at all at the time. I may be misunderstanding its current meaning; I thought it was about asking for sex. I was generally already friends with the people in question – you might say I was suggesting “friends with benefits”, if I understand that phrase correctly. Additional relationships might or might not ensue, but weren’t being specifically requested.
ETA: Some of the men who hit on me, in the sense that I was using the term, were total strangers who were clearly just asking for sex.
I’m married to a wonderful woman. A chance of luck really.
In the county that I work/live in there was a saying for women trying to meet men. Men out numbered women…
The saying is. “The odds are good, but the goods are odd”.
The other saying was for men. “You don’t lose your girlfriend, you lose your turn”
Such as it is in a resort community that have a lot of people that work seasonal.
Oh, nevermind.
I’m a total horndog and am fine with casual hookups but I’ve turned down opportunities mainly because I felt that they were too inebriated to fully give consent or because I wasn’t attracted or because they had romantic feelings that I didn’t share even though I was physically attracted.
The female kind of equivalent of a Chad is a Pick Me or Pickmeisha. This is a woman who will do things that she ordinarily doesn’t like in order to get a man like pretend to be into fishing* and say how they are “not like other girls”.
*obviously there are women who are sincerely into fishing
I remember being a single guy having trouble finding someone and I’d hear that, and it was hurtful.
I mean, I got what they meant, and tried not to take it personally (because I’m sure they didn’t mean to include me in that statement), but it still bothered me a lot.
Not all the good ones are taken. But once you get out of your teens and twenties, or maybe thirties, quite a lot of them are – because people who are good to be married to tend to get married, and they tend to stay married.
There are quite a few “good ones” of any gender who either were late starters for any of a variety of reasons; or who married/partnered with the wrong person the first time, realized it, and got divorced; or for that matter, even these days, who became widowed. But the potential pool simply is smaller than it was when you were, say, 18; and the percentage of that pool who are single because they weren’t good people for at least most and maybe any others to be married to is higher than it was.
ETA: I don’t think I’m blaming anybody for that, and I don’t think I’m being jealous. It happens, that’s all; it’s not anybody’s fault.
The way I worded that may have come across as if autistic = incel. It doesn’t and I’m sorry if it came across that way, it just means autistic people are overrepresented among the incel community. There are lots of non-autistic incels (I’m not on the ASD, and I consider myself a former incel), and lots of autistic people who will never be incels either. Being compared to elon musk must be pretty insulting. Elon musk is a malignant narcissist and deeply toxic person IMO (just like Trump). that is what makes Musk dangerous, not his ASD.
Having said that, there are correlations between certain mental health issues and life outcomes. Depression is overrepresented among people who commit suicide. CSA victims are more likely to work in the sex industry. Something like 50-60% of men in prison for sex offenses have either anti-social personality disorder, or narcissistic personality disorder (malignant narcissism is a combo of both disorders). People with cluster B personality disorders are wildly overrepresented in prisons. I think people with ASPD make up around 40% of the inmate population for homicide, despite making up maybe 2% of the general public.
its not fate, but certain mental health conditions dispose you to be more likely to have certain life outcomes.