Is There a God? [About dietary rules]

Uncle Cecil, you got it wrong (at least by four years). Contrary to what you have been led to believe, contrary to what you have been told is in Vatican Council II, contrary to whatever impression or statement that was given you by a Cardinal, bishop, priest or a whole council of them — the fact is that Roman Catholics are still, today, obliged, under pain of mortal sin, to abstain from eating meat on Friday if they have reached the age of 14. The only concession is for the sick who are excused from observance.

    The law of the Church is:

    (1) You must not eat meat on Friday. It is based on the divine precept, that is the Divine command by Jesus Christ Himself, that you must do penance. To quote Our Lord directly, He said, "Unless you do penance you shall all likewise perish." Since Catholics are bound to try to save our soul, they are bound to do penance. 

    (2) You must, in strict justice and gratitude, acknowledge and continuously acknowledge the debt we owed to Our Lord for dying on the Cross to save us from our own personal sins. This acknowledgment is not simply a private one between Catholics and God (although that is important), it also must be public, that is, acknowledged before your fellow man, at least those within the household of the Church, the household of the Faith, fellow Catholics. 

    The Church, in its wisdom over the centuries, has compressed these two solemn obligations that each Catholic personally has, into a simple law which the Church has the authority to impose on each member. Namely, that you abstain from meat on Friday as a penance as acknowledgment for the suffering and death that Christ endured for our salvation on Good Friday. That law of the Church is still in effect to this very day.

    I am sure that some will protest, "this is not true, it was changed at the Council." Well, what was changed? In February 1966, Pope Paul VI promulgated an Apostolic Constitution (17 Feb. 1966) entitled Paenitemini in which he said that the law of the Church still says to abstain from meat on every Friday throughout the year. 

    However, he gave permission to go against the letter of the law if the conference of bishops of a particular country petitioned the Holy See (the Pope) for permission for their people to do another penance on Friday in place of not eating meat. So, in those countries whose bishops have gone through the channels to petition the Pope for permission to substitute another penance instead of not eating meat on Friday, those individuals in those countries can substitute another penance.

    But what many have not been told, and no one seems to know, is that Catholics still have the obligation to do another penance on that Friday and are still bound under pain of mortal sin.

    So now, some Catholics think that they can continue to eat meat on Fridays because their neighbor — even if he goes to Church every day, even if he happens to be a pastor or bishop — does that, and they do not substitute another penance in place of the penance of abstinence on Friday, they will commit a mortal sin (baring a legitimate dispensation) and go to hell for it unless they repent and confess this sin, or in the absence of the possibility of going to the Sacrament of Confession before death, they make an Act of Perfect Contrition. Otherwise, they will go to hell.

So most Catholics, these days, are not aware that they are breaking the law of their Church and (according to that Church’s doctrines) condemning themselves to hell on a near weekly basis?

That seems like a very long-winded way of answering “No” to your title question.

The OP seems to be talking about the staff report Do Jewish and Islamic dietary laws have anything in common?, first published on June 17, 2003, which says:

If that’s right, then the anger should be directed at the author of the report, C K Dexter Haven, not the inerrant Cecil.

Wrong.

First of all, if you make your argument based upon excluding what is in the latest Ecumenical Council, then you don’t know a damn about Roman Catholicism, or, you’re a throwback who really doesn’t acknowledge the changes made precisely because of Vatican Council II.

Here’s what canon law says…

CHAPTER II : DAYS OF PENANCE

Can. 1249 All Christ’s faithful are obliged by divine law, each in his or her own way, to do penance. However, so that all may be joined together in a certain common practice of penance, days of penance are prescribed. On these days the faithful are in a special manner to devote themselves to prayer, to engage in works of piety and charity, and to deny themselves, by fulfilling their obligations more faithfully and especially by observing the fast and abstinence which the following canons prescribe.

Can. 1250 The days and times of penance for the universal Church are each Friday of the whole year and the season of Lent.

Can. 1251 Abstinence from meat, or from some other food as determined by the Episcopal Conference, is to be observed on all Fridays, unless a solemnity should fall on a Friday. Abstinence and fasting are to be observed on Ash Wednesday and Good Friday.

Can. 1252 The law of abstinence binds those who have completed their fourteenth year. The law of fasting binds those who have attained their majority, until the beginning of their sixtieth year. Pastors of souls and parents are to ensure that even those who by reason of their age are not bound by the law of fasting and abstinence, are taught the true meaning of penance.

Can. 1253 The Episcopal Conference can determine more particular ways in which fasting and abstinence are to be observed. In place of abstinence or fasting it can substitute, in whole or in part, other forms of penance, especially works of charity and exercises of piety.

As you can see, days of abstinence can be moved by the conference of bishops, or and intervening day of solemnity. In fact, the Episcopal Conference has the authority to have the penance of abstinence be substituted by something else.

So, this is not the absolute you think it is.

Also, the divine law is to do penance each in their own way. Note it does not say the divine law is to abstain from meat on Fridays. Note it does not say you must do it the way you say under the penalty of ‘the pain of mortal sin.’

You’re just making stuff up.

Moderator note: I’ve modified the thread title to give other readers a better clue about the content of the thread.

Comment as author of that Staff Report: The point of the staff report was the comparison of Jewish and Islamic dietary laws, which are extensive and complex. The point of comparison to Christianity is that Christianity (including Catholicism) essentially has no dietary laws.

And we Christians know there is a God, a Christian God, not a Jewish or Muslim God, because He, in His wisdom, gave us pigs to eat. And turtles we could pretend were fish.

However, I could never understand why pre-V2 Catholics considered eating lobster (given us by OUR God, not yours, Dex ;)) “doing penance.” As mortifying it may look, you are not mortifying the flesh when you have melted butter dribbling down your chin.

There are two etymologies for not eating meat on Fridays:

  1. Meat is considered an expensive luxury, and so, you abstain from it in penance.

  2. Since Friday is the day Jesus died, i.e., when his flesh was given up as a sacrifice; then not eating flesh (i.e., ‘meat’) is a devotion in which to commemorate Jesus’ death. It’s not meant to be a dietary law per se. Consider that the sorrowful mysteries of Jesus’ death of the Rosary are prayed on Friday. Or that Mass can not be celebrated on Good Friday. Or that the abstinence from meat never historically made mention of substituting something grovelly, like gruel or just bread and water, but instead replaced it with a full fish meal.

No. 2 is more likely the historical reason. Of course, that doesn’t mean it’s morally OK to constantly splurge on the most decadent non-meat meal you can find.

A-HAH! Excellent point!

Agree fully. Not that I follow it, but I agree.

Where I lived in 1964 the McDonald’s was open past midnight on Friday night to serve the people like my father and older brothers who could not wait until Saturday morning to eat some meat.

The man who has made up his mind to win will never say "impossible ".
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