I heard an ad on the radio in which a local restaurant was advertising fish dishes that they offer for Lent. One of the dishes, though, included bacon bits, which confused me.
Does the Catholic Church have some official rules on what does and doesn’t count as meat during Lent for those who do give up meat on Fridays during Lent (AIUI, that’s optional since Vatican II), or do they let each individual decide what is and isn’t OK for them? The latter seems to go against the grain of how the Catholic Church does things, or at least it seems that way to me.
If they don’t have official rules on what is and isn’t allowed now, did they before Vatican II?
Is the prohibition on any meat, or just on meat as a main dish? In the latter case, fish with bacon bits would be OK, but a steak wouldn’t.
How strict is the prohibition on meat? If you order soup, for example, are you supposed to make sure it doesn’t include chicken stock? That’s what some vegetarians and people who keep kosher (myself included) do.
Is it a mortal sin to say you’re giving up meat on Fridays for Lent and then lapse?
AIUI, at least at some time pre-Vatican II, Catholics were expected to give up meat altogether, not just on Fridays, for all of Lent. Are there many people who still do this?
It occurred to me that the bacon bits mentioned in the ad might not be real bacon. I’ve got a jar of fake bacon bits in my fridge right now (since I keep kosher, obviously I wouldn’t have real bacon in the house).
I don’t know about the bacon bits, but the local diocese newspaper said the “rules” allow the use of chicken or beef broth in soups that are otherwise meat-free. Personally I feel it’s the intent that counts.
I thought of that. But since this ad is obviously aimed at people who have given up meat for Fridays in Lent, you’d think they would make more of a point of them not being real bacon.
The general idea these day is that you’re making a sacrifice on Friday’s in Lent, days when we’re meant to remember in a special way that Jesus died on the cross (assuming that you believe that, of course). If you were to go with the letter of the law, which IIRC isn’t even a law so much as a tradition, then meat free bacon bits fit not eating meat, but soups that use meat based broths would not be. If you go by the spirit of the law, which is what I tend to do, I would say that eating bacon bits made of vegetable products more closely resembles eating meat than eating soup with animal based broth.
The idea, again, is to sacrifice something. My dad likes to grill gorgeous tuna steaks during Fridays in Lent if the weather is nice. There’s another example that fits the letter of the law, but not the spirit. Is a tuna steak a sacrifice if it’s something you love and only have on special occasions (or when there’s a really great sale at the seafood mart)? Not so much.
Does the Catholic Church have an opinion one way or the other whether one should follow the letter or the spirit of the law?
I know that some people give up things other than meat for Lent. Do any of them give up those things only on the Fridays of Lent, or are those sacrifices always for all the days of Lent? What about the Sundays in Lent- do they still abstain from whatever on the Sundays in Lent?
They are supposed to abstain for the whole duration of Lent, not just Fridays. Though IIRC, it’s the spirit of the law that’s more important. In years past, when St.Patrick’s day has been on Fridays, the Catholic Church has usually said it’s ok for Irish catholics to eat corned beef.
Is it considered a sin to not give up anything for Lent? How serious a sin? Or is giving up something for Lent something that is encouraged but not mandatory?
The bacon bits are OK as long as they’re kosher (I once saw a place in North Carolina that listed a “kosher sub” on its menu. The sub included ham. No, I’m not kidding. :rolleyes: )
OK - speaking as a very lapsed Catholic here:
No-meat fridays were supposed to be year round, as I understand it. This was back before Vatican II, which happened when I was too young to remember the changes. Afterward, it was suggested only during Lent. However, a lot of cafeterias where I’ve worked as an adult always have a fish option on Fridays, year-round, so it seems like the tradition dies hard.
Also on Ash Wednesday (the day after Mardi Gras or Fat Tuesday, which gets more press thanks to New Orleans’ celebrations) and Good Friday (today), Catholics are supposed to fast. Which I remember being defined as “one regular meal though smaller than usual, and two smaller snacks which don’t add up to as much as the main meal”. Seems sort of a cop-out vs. true fasting but I guess they figured they’d get better compliance.
I don’t think eating meat today would be a mortal sin, more of a venial one (sort of a misdemeanor vs. a felony, so to speak). Giving up something for Lent was never an obligation when I was growing up, but it was certainly something that one was free to do to remind oneself of the privations Jesus was going through a few millenia ago. And yes, you’re supposed to give whatever that is up for all 40 days, not just Fridays.
Oh boy, am I glad I stumbled on this thread! I’m having guests for dinner tomorrow,[sup]*[/sup] and one of them is an observant Catholic. I’m not sure I’ll be able to get in touch with them before I head to the market, and from what I’m reading up-thread, I may be taking a risk if I use meat in the meal. Is that right or is it only a super-small ultra-orthodox minority that goes sans-meat for the entire Lenten period?
If I were in this situation, I’d make sure there were some dishes that didn’t include meat. Don’t make a big deal out of (or even comment on) his not taking some of any of the dishes you do offer, including the main dish, and make sure there is enough that if someone does make a meal out of sides, there’s still enough to go around. Vegetarians and those of us who follow religious food rules that the majority of people around us don’t, we tend to be used to this sort of thing.
Some people also give up alcohol, caffeine or desserts for Lent, AIUI. Make sure there’s something non-alcoholic and non-caffeinated available to drink, and don’t be offended if he passes on dessert.
Speaking as a lapsed Catholic, the original ban on meat during lent was for every day, not just Fridays. During the remainder of the year, it was no meat on Fridays. Fish, cheese and animal based broth were acceptable, though.
Post- Vatican II, the ban is only for Fridays during lent. As Mama Zappa says, Ash Wednesday and Good Friday are fast days calling for one light meal and two small snacks.
During lent, anyone past first communion is expected to give up something that they really like (not necessarily food) for the duration to commemorate Jesus’ forty days fasting in the desert.
Some old school Catholics still forgo meat every Friday and for the duration of lent, but it is no longer a requirement.
Perhaps St. Germain or another practicing Catholic will come along shortly to add to/ correct the information already presented.
Forgot one thing. If those bacon bits were made from capybaras (large cousins of guinea pigs… hey, pigs is pigs, right?) then they’d be quite all right: Capybara - Wikipedia (look for the word ‘fish’).
Somehow, though, I doubt too many places in the US are serving capybara bits on their food!
It’s not an issue, since Holy Saturday isn’t part of Lent. Actually, technically speaking, Good Friday isn’t part of Lent, either, but the same restrictions apply. Holy Saturday, though, your guests won’t be any more vegetarian than they are any other time of year.
The current Code of Canon Law (canons 1249-1253) covers the issues of fasting and abstinence. But it’s important to keep in mind that under canon 1253:
Therefore the rules of fasting and abstinence are not observed/practised in the same way all around the world. Bishops’ Conferences around the western world generally take a fairly “relaxed” attitude nowadays.
First, some definitions:
according to canon 1249, **penance ** means that the faithful:
**fasting ** basically means restricting one’s food. It does not mean going without food altogether. The laws of fasting only apply from the age of “majority” until the beginning of one’s sixtieth year.
abstinence means refraining from eating meat of any kind. This has traditionally been interpreted in the sense of “flesh” and does not include fish. The laws of abstinence apply once one turns fourteen. However, episcopal conferences can, if they wish, determine another type of food from which the faithful are required to abstain for the purposes of the Code (canon 1251).
And as for the rules themselves, the Code states that:
all the days of Lent, as well as all Fridays throughout the rest of the year, are defined as days of penance for the universal Church (canon 1250).
all Fridays throughout the year are days of abstinence, unless a solemnity (i.e. an important feast day like St Joseph or the Assumption of the BVM) falls on a Friday (canon 1251).
Ash Wednesday (the first day of Lent) and Good Friday are specifically recognised as days of fasting and abstinence (canon 1251).
Note from the details in canons 1249 and 1253 above that Catholics can perform other acts of penance (e.g. going to a daily mass, saying additional prayers) in place of abstinence. And individual Episcopal Conferences can alter the rules for their local dioceses anyway. This is what has occurred in Australia, where the abstinence prescribed for all Fridays throughout the year has been replaced with the more generalised forms of penance as noted above. Only two days remain in Australia where Catholics of the appropriate age are still obliged to fast and abstain: Ash Wednesday and Good Friday. It’s all pretty derisory nowadays.
Of course some Catholics do more than is required. Others completely ignore the rules. Following the rules to the letter can easily become somewhat pharasaical. Or it can lead to absurd outcomes. When I was a child I knew plenty of Catholic families who loved Fridays in Lent because it meant that they had favourite foods such as lobster or oysters for dinner. Hardly penitential! On the other hand of course is the point that if the determination of the penitential act is left to each individual Catholic, it can become completely meaningless and ineffective, and the corporate nature of what we’re doing, as a body of believers, is completely lost. It’s a difficult balance and 'twas ever thus.
(I once saw a place in North Carolina that listed a “kosher sub” on its menu. The sub included ham. No, I’m not kidding. :rolleyes: )