Heck, we non Reactionary Wacko Traitors can’t even fly our own country’s flag without being lumped in with the RWTs. They have largely appropriated the very symbol of our country for their revolutionary efforts to overthrow exactly that country.
I will spend just as much effort in separating the two as the “good” Christians spend in distancing themselves from the bigots.
Then you will have spend some time around the “good” Christians to get a sense of just how much distancing they are doing. Which is at least as much as you are, I’m betting.
We spend plenty of time trying to distance ourselves from the bigots. And when we do, people like you say we’re trying to “No True Scotsman” them.
Exactly.
I’ve known bigoted Christians, and want nothing to do with them. Bigots are bigots.
If you’re not identifying as a “Christian nationalist,” though, this thread has nothing to do with you.
I will be the first to admit that I live a very comfortable life, far enough removed from the typical RW (or our local flavor of such) voter that I don’t really meet them in my day to day. And I am not doing anything to create a platform to do more.
I’m not trying to admonish any poster here or any one person, nor claiming that I do better.
That does not change that I see very few religious organizations that use their considerable clout to clearly distance themselves from their more bigoted brethren. If they are trying to do so they aren’t doing a great job communicating effectively.
What would you like to see? What would be convincing to you?
Read 4 posts up from yours.
Or the one just after.
I don’t know.
Do you think that the various churches, as a whole are doing a good job in communicating that there are a lot of bigoted “Christians” that are using his name in vain and not following any of Christs teachings?
The other side has no problems communicating their talking points and rallying the “faithful”.
Eh, it’s a matter of degree and separation. For example, the Roman Catholic Church in Rome is substantially more about teaching the ways of Jesus (even if I don’t agree with them), than the US Branch of the Catholic Church, which has gotten quite political in RW circles.
And both are far more restrained than the various Baptist Sects in North America, which are often spend more time preaching against the social evils of the Democrats than they are about Jesus’ teachings.
As in many things, Churches cater too, and are in tern influenced by their constituents. And in the US, there are a substantial number of Churches catering to (and creating in some cases) entire communities of Christian Nationalists, many of whom also have white supremacist leanings.
Now, I also know a ton of predominantly African-American Baptist Churches, and they tend (not 100%, but highly) to focus more on the teachings of tolerance and charity, and certainly have nothing to do with White Supremacy.
So again, if you know your base, whether it be Republican, White Supremacist, Christian Nationalist, or ‘Other’ you’re going to find self-reinforcing patterns. In many US Christian churches, a preacher that caters to extreme elements will be pushed out, or as communities change, preachers will leave their congregations or even be expelled by their ‘superiors’ as not fitting the tone of the age.
The fact is, the only people who listen to anything the ordinary mainstream churches are saying are those in the pews. Nobody else. Those regular churches believe in the separation of church and state, so they are not ginning up political hate-candidates. They don’t have candidates at all. If they engage in any politics it is on behalf of the poor, the homeless, immigrants, and the oppressed, which means making common cause with others of different faiths and no faith who are doing the same thing. Roman Catholic nuns in particular have been activists in these causes forever. These are people who aren’t in your face about Jesus, they are simply trying to live as they believe he would have them do.
Yes, it’s pretty horrible being told thousands of times how evil and irrational their religion is, the proof is right out there waving hate signs in front of government buildings. And yet they still feed the hungry, clothe the naked, and so forth, as commanded. There really isn’t anything else to do, and I really don’t know what you imagine should be done instead. It appears you don’t either.
Every Christian church that is not a hate-filled group should be loudly condemning every so-called “church” that is.
A great swell of the worlds Catholics, Episcopals, etc., should be loudly and regularly proclaiming to the world that whatever goes on in the racists / hatists’ congregations and the money-grubbers’ congregations, it is not Christianity in any form, and it’s barely even religion. It is a stain upon all that Jesus stood for so long ago and astain on all that the good churches have done for 2 millenia.
They should be organizing shaming protest marches outside the buildings of the hate-mongers whenever and wherever they try to meet.
That would be far, far more effective than a secularist group such as myself & my friends trying teh same thing. Each and every speech by the Pope should include prayers that the badly misled should abandon their false adulation of hate and money. And name names. Names of denominations, names of synods, names of TV charlatans dressed as preachers.
I think all of the above would be an excellent start. But no more than a start.
Especially the Roman Catholics have a platform from which they could smite any candidate.
“This guy is a heretic, he embodies every evil the the Bible warned about”
-I am pope Francis and I approve this message.
True, but, I have it on the authority of many Protestants (from many denominations) that Catholics can not be Christian Nationalists because . . . Catholics are not Christians.
You are speaking about the evangelical, fundamentalist, and Southern Baptist churches. They are “many denominations” because (except for SB’s) each church is often its own minuscule ‘denomination’. This type of Protestant church is only loosely affiliated, even with other very similar congregations.
The mainstream Protestant churches – Lutheran, Episcopalian, Presbyterian, Congregational – are all liberal, ecumenical bodies. They have a broad definition of Christianity, which includes Catholic, Orthodox, and also the narrow-minded rightwing churches that have contempt for them and a xenophobic fear of the Catholics. Again, you, and so many on this board, take the loudest and worst examples of Christianity and believe you understand the whole.
In any case, the Catholic Church is an international body if there ever was one, and being governed from above, is not likely to embrace the elevation of one race or nationality over another, at least in modern times – the growth of the RCC these days comes from Africa and South America, not ‘white’ countries.
You know all those protest marches against trumpism, against anti-abortion laws, against anti-trans and anti-gay laws, all the rest of it? Those are filled with liberal Christians waving “Jesus Loves Everyone” and “Not My Christianity” signs. Nobody fucking cares. The leadership of liberal churches similarly has no bully pulpit, no one is interested in what they might say. They talk about loving your neighbor, reconciling with your enemies, seeking accord, seeking justice for all, blah blah blah, nothing that is going to light up a news editor’s eyes. Do you see the problem yet?
So it comes down that basically, nobody feels they have to fear the liberal Christians.
And when seeking to gain power and influence, it is easier and more reliable (not “better”) to be feared than to be loved, said a famous secular writer.
Pope Francis is from Argentina, that should tell you something.
But you have a good point. White Nationalism would make no sense to Catholics. Which “nation” would that be, Vatican City?
And many of those liberal Christians waving signs will be priests and nuns. The old pastor of my church got himself arrested at protests, multiple times. He also became a lawyer, so as to better stand up for the rights of poor immigrants.