"Why Trump Reigns as King Cyrus"

This is one of the most disturbing things I’ve read among the many disturbing things I read every day. I’m putting it here in IMHO instead of the pit, because I’m not looking for a fight, but to inform and discuss.

It’s about the hard-core, right-wing “Christian Nationalist Movement,” which is NOT the same thing as garden-variety Christian evangelism. These are also not the “deplorables,” or the MAGAbots. They are something more dangerous to the country, because they believe they are carrying out God’s will by backing the president, whom they see as God’s instrument.

Source: New York Times, Dec 31, 2018

Here’s the punch line:



People who are driven by set-in-concrete religious motives/values will not be dissuaded. By anything or anyone.

I don’t have anything useful to contribute. I’d just like to point out that - given the last 2000 years of human history - this should come as a surprise to absolutely no one.

Of course, Cyrus the great and the Persian Achaemenid Empire as a whole were big proponents of multiculturalism and religious tolerance.

And from Newsweek, Evangelicals Who Don’t Support Trump May Be ‘Immoral,’ Jerry Falwell Jr. Says:

Jesus Fucking Christ. (Or should it be Donald Christ, now?)

Additional points made by a HuffPost article:

Thump’s character doesn’t matter at all to these people, so pointing out his moral failings is not a way to change their minds.

It makes one wonder what would change their minds? People who use religion and what they believe to be “God’s will” as their foundation are pretty immovable. Certainly as a group. Individuals might have personal experiences that cause them to leave the cult–and I do see this as a cult.

The whole article is pretty interesting.

I’ve heard about this, but not like a literal “God was sent by and is controlling Trump”, just in a metaphorical “he’s a bad man, but he’s getting our agenda moving so who cares if he’s a bad guy on a personal basis.” A metaphorical Cyrus, not a literal one.

Meanwhile, that rumbling sound you hear? It’s Cyrus rolling in his grave.

Okay. IF and only if Trump decrees modern Aramaic as our new national language and Zoroastrianism as the state observed( but non-mandatory )religion, I will vote for him in 2020. This should include all ceremonial government prayer-services and mandatory Aramaic instruction in all primary schools, with a stated goal of full translation of all government documents to that language by the end of his second term.

I could get nitpicky and insist on Elamite or even Old Aramaic. But frankly I think that would be unfair to Trump :). Modern Aramaic as a lingua franca also makes more sense than Farsi in this particular context. At least IMHO.

So, sure - I’m totally on board.

The idea behind “Trump = Cyrus” is that Trump’s personal character and history is no longer baggage to worry about.

Or the soundtrack of Miley Cyrus’s new video.

So what percentage of the electorate are “Christian Nationalists”? Even if they’re all agog over Trump, just increasing turnout infinitesimally among sane voters would easily cancel them out.*

*the linked article doesn’t substantiate that “Christian nationalists” are making a “direct attack on democracy”, just that they’d prefer not to live in one.

That is the question. Mike Pence is one for sure (but we knew that).

Further, from the HuffPost article:

This is the group thump is dog-whistling at.

Also from the linked HuffPost article:

My emphasis. Would “increasing turnout infinitesimally among sane voters would easily cancel them out”? One hopes so.

This movement answers the questions, “Why aren’t <some percentage of> Christians offended and put off by thump’s lack of moral character? How can anyone calling him/herself a good Christian support a lying, cheating, unprincipled adulterer?” It’s not the economy for this group. It’s not *primarily *immigration, racism, abortion, keeping women/minorities in their places. It’s that thump is the instrument of God chosen by God to bring about their white-Protestant-Christian goals, as defined by Christian Nationalism.

I’m willing to bet the number of Americans that literally believe Trump was sent be God, even evangelicals, is vanishingly small. Like “influenced by Russian Facebook memes” small.

Not that I’ve been to “dozens” of Christian Nationalist meetings like the article’s author :eek:, but I suspect that Christian Nationalist ≠ white evangelical Protestant.

In any case, this subgroup is way way down my list of Threats To Democracy, overshadowed by such things as hackable voting machines, hostility to the First Amendment and rejection of due process in legal and quasi-legal proceedings.

I agree that it’s not at the top of the list, and those other things are more immediate threats. But this movement shouldn’t be ignored or scorned either. Especially if, by some twist of fate, Mike Pence becomes president. People who believe that God Sent Them cannot be reasoned with.

I was trying to think of what might attract mainstream evangelical Christians to the Christian Nationalism movement (and I also agree that these are two different groups). It might be turn out to be an immovable issue like abortion. Mainstream evangelicals might hold their noses and get on board if the CN-ers look like the only group holding the line on abortion.

Maybe I missed it upthread, but I haven’t seen anyone yet mention that Cyrus was considered to be a messiah by the Israelites. I’d like to dangle that in front of them to see if they bite.

He does have a J for his middle initial.

Couple of thoughts and points.

It should be noted that Jerry Falwell Jr. is a lawyer and not an evangelist like his father, so I would take just about any of his religious yarbling with a large dose of salt.

It should also be noted that Falwell’s comments about the poor in the recent interview were beyond appalling.

As for this bit,

We already have that here in the United States.

Nativity scenes haven’t been banned.

The President still says “God bless America” at some point during multiple speeches including the State of the Union.

Not “Allah bless America.”

Not “Buddha bless America.”

Not “Satan bless America.”

Not “Zeus bless America.”

Cyrus the Great was a particular inspiration for Thomas `All Men are Created Equal’ Jefferson, as well as other Founding Fathers including Benjamin Franklin.

That Cyrus is being compared to Trump demonstrates that this truly is the Reign of Idiots and Hypocrites.

The President doesn’t say “Jesus bless America” though. At least not yet.

But Allah and God are the same thing. So is JHVH, or Jehovah. Christianity, Judaism, and Islam were pretty much born of the same root; that is monotheism. Or, one God, as oppesed to polytheism, which is multiple gods, such as the Greeks and Romans had. Judaism came first, and Jesus Christ mentioned the Jewish prophets in the Gospels. Later, Mohammad mentioned Jesus as a prophet in the Koran. God’s nomenclature may have changed between religions, but all agree that there is only one God, no matter what you call Him: God, Allah, or Jehovah. So, “God bless America” is the same as “Allah bless America,” which is the same as “Jehovah bless America.”