Rook, I am awed by your willful ignorance, blatant bigotry, incomparable hypocrisy and surreal stupidity!
I actually have a good idea about what is said about us behind our backs. That’s because I have not been out to everyone at college or at work. It made quite the impression on me in college when I was on a field trip with two guys who started discussing an incident where 4 marines beat a gay man to death. One of the college guys said “good for them. I wish I could have been there”.
It’s frightening to share a vehicle with people who would wish death on me if they knew the truth.
I have heard some disparaging remarks at work about “queers” and “faggots”, but I quietly tell people that I find such language offensive. I wonder how they’d react if they knew how many of their co-workers were closeted gays (5 by my last count).
Cajun Man
Hey thanks (Rook = to stupid to realize that’s an insult)
Beakerxf
I’m truly embarrassed when an acquaintance insults a homosexual to his or her face just for being gay. I also think it takes a lot of courage to just admit that you’re gay, much less function in society.
So beakerxf, do you ever feel like the entire world’s against you? Have you ever gotten threatened? How about assaulted? Do you know homosexuals who show prejudice toward heterosexuals?
It’s a nice act, Rook, but it’s only an act. You’ve heard the answers, and you’ve conveniently ignored them and kept on pushing your bad arguments. For starters, we’ve offered you ample evidence that the causes of homosexuality are a combination of biological and environmental factors outside the control of the individual gay or lesbian. But you ignore all that and keep insisting that since no specific “gay gene” has been found, homosexuality must be a choice. And so it goes with all the rest of your arguments. After nine pages of debate, you continue to insist that you know more about homosexuality than all the gays and lesbians on this board and in opposition to impartial scientific research and evidence.
Do I think you’re a bigot? Hell yes, I think you’re a bigot.
Let me break this down bit by bit….
“It’s a nice act, Rook, but it’s only an act.”
Why the hell would I act online? I don’t want none of you as friends and I’m sure you guys wouldn’t want me babysitting your kids.
“You’ve heard the answers, and you’ve conveniently ignored them and kept on pushing your bad arguments.”
Bad arguments? Do you not know that these are the SAME arguments told to children and passed down from generation to generation? Where are you from??? If they’re bad or not isn’t the question. I asked those questions for a reason. If you choose not answer then it’s your choice.
“For starters, we’ve offered you ample evidence that the causes of homosexuality are a combination of biological and environmental factors outside the control of the individual gay or lesbian.”
Wait a sec now. I recall people telling me the environment wasn’t much of a factor until much later in the conversation. Biological evidence? You mean gene similarity? All that proves is that some (because not all have been diagnosed with the same genetic similarities) homosexuals have some of the same genetic sequence. When I bring up how genetic similarities have been found in many other groups it’s passed over and ignored. The only defense I’ve heard is that there are genetic similarities in a multitude of “groups” but that doesn’t support your view. Also that childhood abuse has a great deal to do with pedophilia BUT wouldn’t that qualify as your childhood environment? So we expect child molesters to change but not homosexuals? Why? Because child molesters are dangerous. We ask them to change even though biological and environmental factors outside of the individuals control seems to govern their actions. Do you see the hypocrisy in that?
“But you ignore all that and keep insisting that since no specific “gay gene” has been found”
which is true
“…homosexuality must be a choice.”
I’m trying to make sense of everything keeping the previous argument in mind. We ask people with criminal tendencies to change but feel that homosexuals are “born that way” so that can’t change (I bet people are going to think I defending child molesters now)
“And so it goes with all the rest of your arguments. After nine pages of debate, you continue to insist that you know more about homosexuality than all the gays and lesbians on this board”
When the hell I say that? Actually I don’t know WHY I’m heterosexual but I can give my opinion. Science doesn’t know WHY people are gay so I was asking questions that could be answered by opinion. The only opinion I received was from Hastur. Everyone else was too scared to say something that other homosexuals might not agree with.
“ and in opposition to impartial scientific research and evidence.”
Wait. All the “impartial scientific research and evidence” still doesn’t answer WHY someone has a specific sexual preference. It’s all theories and speculation. Nothing concrete. Correct me if I’m wrong.
“Do I think you’re a bigot? Hell yes, I think you’re a bigot.”
Then this is a world of bigots, JTR. I will openly express any questions I might have and don’t put on “an act” to be politically correct.
If I openly said, “I commit fornication on a regular basis,” why would you think I’m asking these questions because I support all of them? I don’t support everything in the bible but yet used that as an argument. Why? TO SEE WHAT THE ANSWER WOULD BE…
I guess you never heard of the German East Africa Nazi movement.
No. I have a strong social circle and a great family. They act as a buffer to the big bad world out there. Plus, we live in a society that has become vastly more accepting in the past 30 years. However, there is enough hostility and hatred out there that I remain cautious, especially down here in the ultra-conservative South.
No, but a friend of a friend was attacked this past June (only some bruising and a broken finger, luckily). So, I don’t lie to myself and think it can’t happen to me.
Nope.
You refuse to listen, you think that homosexuality is a choice. You haven’t the slightest understanding of the process of maturation or of the formation of personality and yet you tell us what makes us gay? You are an idiot.
It wouldn’t take more than a few basic psychology classes at college to tell you that the formation of personality is complex and is not something even science understands. If the formation of personality is complex, what drives us sexually is even more so.
You are a prejudiced fool. I have met many prejudiced black people in my life. Skin color does not absolve one from hating for a stupid reason. I’m just glad I’m not like you and dislike you without having to dislike your race, which you do a disservice.
But it’s plainly obvious you had no intention of accepting their answers.
Okay, which is it? Either you are a religious fanatic or you aren’t.
Yet another example of the ignorant condemning the informed for being informed.
Methinks thou dost protest too much.
Nope, I compared you to the Nazis. Perhaps you’d prefer to be compared to Louis Farrakhan?
How do you know KellyM is a woman?
Fine with me. I’m just objecting to your facade of open-mindedness and your protestations of innocence. For example: “The arguments I’m using are not necessarily my own…” and “I’m not the enemy people…just a spectator.”
You’re a bigot. Nothing more and nothing less. Your questions are tendentious and leading. You have no interest in the answers. You’re just openly slamming gays and lesbians with negative stereotypes you’ve ever heard floating around and then justifying yourself by saying, “Hey, they’re not MY opinions. I’m simply brave enough to say openly what other people only think.” You would have us believe that spouting bigotry is a virtue.
If you want to be honest with us, try re-phrasing the statement of yours that I quoted at the top of this post. Say it aloud, Rook: “I will openly express any bigotry I might have and won’t put on ‘an act’ to be politically correct.”
No it’s not, Rook. The times are changing, and most people do genuinely want to be fair once they have the facts in front of them. True bigots like you are a fairly small minority.
Why should Rook stop jumping to unjustified conclusions at this late state of the game?
Quote from KellyM:
“Well, I’m not a “homosexual” so my answer is probably not very useful to you”
“Your sexual organs aren’t compatible with mine because I would never allow myself to have sex with an asshole like you. This has nothing to do with whether your tab A can be inserted in my slot B. It’s because you’re a fucking jerk who I wouldn’t allow to enter my property, let alone get anywhere near my body.”
I guess I’m stupid to assume she’s a female
Hastur
“ It wouldn’t take more than a few basic psychology classes at college to tell you that the formation of personality is complex and is not something even science understands. If the formation of personality is complex, what drives us sexually is even more so.”
EXACTLY MY POINT!!! There is no concrete evidence! Just speculation! For a homosexual I’m sure it’s crystal clear. But to expect a heterosexual, who has always been told it was wrong, to understand them because “they were born that way and cannot change no matter what” leads to many more questions. I’m not saying it’s not possible. I’m saying the same explanation is used by MANY dangerous groups of people who we EXPECT to change (child molesters). Can I hear an answer to that?? The ONLY answer I’ve heard is how they can’t survive in society and how they are dangerous. So the fuck what!! If they were born that way and are products of their environments, doesn’t that mean they have no choice to change? Or is it different with them BESIDES the fact they are dangerous?
Quote from Rook:
“What I do know is that Rook knows Rook better then any Jab 1 chump with a large vocabulary.”
Jab 1
“Yet another example of the ignorant condemning the informed for being informed.”
Ignorance? It’s ignorant to think YOU know ME better then I do!
JTR
You have no interest in the answers
What answers? I’ve heard speculations and theories from scientists who agree there is no proof that homosexuality isn’t solely genetic. Who agree that environments aren’t solely responsible. Who SPECULATE that it is a combination of both but have no clue to what extent. What kind of basis is that? Is that your PROOF? I was interested YOUR in different opinions.
“…most people do genuinely want to be fair once they have the facts in front of them….”
What facts?! The fact is Hastur is absolutely right: “It wouldn’t take more than a few basic psychology classes at college to tell you that the formation of personality is complex and is not something even science understands. If the formation of personality is complex, what drives us sexually is even more so.”
JTR, you’re taking theory as fact! What FACTS are you talking about? Since there are no facts that can be proven without doubt from an impartial person such as myself (said just to make you guys mad), that means what it comes down to is personal opinion.
JTR, I’m through defending myself. I don’t give a damn if you think I’m a bigot. You must be used to people just excepting answers with no REAL proof. I don’t. Because of that I guess I’m a bigot (most likely this will be taken out of context). CAN SOMEONE ANSWER MY QUESTION ABOUT GENETIC SIMULARITIES IN CHILD MOLESTERS? ARE THEY UNABLE TO CHANGE? WHAT DO YOU THINK?
I know someone who knows a convicted child molester. He said he acts like he has no choice. Like the urge is too great for him to fight. Also that he’s glad he was caught because he would’ve done it again. WHAT DO YOU FEEL THE DIFFERENCE IS? WOULD YOU EXPECT HIM TO CHANGE EVEN THOUGH HE SAYS HE WAS BORN THAT WAY?
And once again you insult the entirety of the gay community by trying to strike similarities between them and child molesters. You just do not learn, do you?
I’m going to say this very, very slowly so you’ll understand:
Click on the links in my signature line.
Let me repeat that:
Click on the links in my signature line.
Read them well, young padawan, and learn from those who live the answers which you seek.
:rolleyes:
Esprix
I’ll check it out
Oooh, hit a nerve there, did I? No, Rook. Not boy. Choda boy. Coprophagic choda boy. Since you didn’t get the reference, I’ll break it down for you.
Coprophagic = shit-eating
choda boy = hard-on
There you go. Impress your friends with your new vocabulary skills. Take your foot out of your mouth first, though.
I’ve never accused you of being stupid, just of having questionable reading comprehension. And now, apparently, of poor impulse control. But this thread isn’t about you. This thread is about the question you asked to open the thread. Remember? Not about morality, not about nature’s design, not about the Bible. You asked about what genetic basis there is for homosexuality. More broadly, do gays “choose” to be gay?
The answer is, as has been repeatedly posted before, that the broad scientific consensus is that genes and early-childhood environment determine how strongly a person is sexually attracted to someone of the same sex. By early-childhood environment, I mean the nine months of pregnancy and about the first three years of life — far, far earlier than any kind of sexual experience.
So, no, gays do not “choose” to be gay. Many gays do choose to have sex with members of the same sex, but that is not the defining point of being gay.
Thanks for the capital letters. For the difference, as usual I’ll advise you to read back in this very same thread, where the issue of consent was raised. For example, if you and your girlfriend want to fuck, that’s okay. If me and my boyfriend want to fuck, that’s also okay - two consenting adults doing something that affects no one else. Sex with animals and children? Not okay - the animal has no way of giving consent, and therefore animal sex is the equivalent of rape. A child is not capable legally of giving informed consent - they are not considered mentally capable. Therefore sex with children, even those who have menstruated, is not considered to be okay morally. I believe it was KellyM who brought up this point. Please re-read that section, since your question was answered there.
No one expects the child molester to change his sexual desires, they expect him to stop engaging in behavior that harms children. He will likely continue you feel the desire to abuse children, but the average person will not support him in that endeavor.
Nothing in the quoted material either states or implies that I’m female. I have no idea where you got the notion, especially since my name is gender-ambiguous.
I posted in that discussion but it wasn’t me that raised consent. I don’t consider the inability of an animal to consent to sex as damning to the morality of bestiality. We don’t generally ask animals for their consent before we kill them and eat them for dinner. I’m not convinced that fucking them is any significantly different. I admit that the morality of bestiality is questionable but I don’t think it’s clearly wrong.
Sex with children, on the other hand, is clearly and unremittingly wrong. It’s not wrong because it’s unnatural, it’s wrong because it does grave harm to the child. Child molesters should be sequestered from the population not because we hate them but because we need to protect children from them. They should be sequestered until cured, and as a society we should make all practical efforts to cure them during their sequestration, out of respect for their humanity, just as we would try to cure someone with a physical illness.
DavisMcDavis
Consent has nothing to do with my question. But this statement you made does.
“No one expects the child molester to change his sexual desires, they expect him to stop engaging in behavior that harms children. He will likely continue you feel the desire to abuse children, but the average person will not support him in that endeavor.”
So you feel that there is no way to reform a true child molester? Do you feel they should be held accountable for their actions?
Also, have you met proclaimed homosexuals who have never had homosexual sex? Are there homosexuals who claim celibacy?