Having watched a few films from China and Japan, I’ve noticed that they don’t seem to feature the standard-issue “good guys” and “bad guys” of Western film. I have guessed that this might be because the idea of a clear dichotomy between good and evil is a Western, Judeo-Christian concept. (Correct me if you believe I am wrong about this.)
It occurs to me that if I am correct and that the concepts of good and evil are not as clearly defined in Eastern cultures, that should be reflected in the languages of those cultures.
Which leads me to my question:
Is there a word in Japanese that is a clean, direct translation of “evil?”
What about the various Chinese dialects?
And do the various Chinese and Japanese philosophies invoke a concept of “good and evil”?
I think you’re off-base. What films have you been watching? You should get your hands on some nice mid-60s films from Mainland China. You’ll learn that the most evil people in the world are landlords and property owners.
The Mandarin term for evil is xie, and it means evil. Mandarin often uses compound words, and xie is used in terms meaning evil ways (xielu, literally, the “evil road”), heresy (xieshuo, literally, “evil speech”), and monsterous (yaoxie, sort of like “witching evil” or “demonic evil”).
Yes, and the word for shoes has the same sound and tone, so shoes are considered an unlucky thing. If you give shoes as a gift, it’s like giving “evil”.
I don’t know anything about Asian languages, so just a general point about translating words and concepts across languages and cultures :
In translation from one language to another you rarely find a word that has all the same connotations and nuances. The word “evil” is a specific English (not ‘Western, Judeo-Christian’ !) word, which is both noun and adjective, and which is distinct from “bad”, “wicked”, “unlucky”, “unholy” etc.
I think you’ll find that the general concept “bad” vs “good” is pretty universal, but the problem of “evil” is that it carries with it not only the concept of “bad” and “morally reprehensible” (wicked), but also the idea of a discorporate but somehow sentient force - either a principle or a devil.
You’ll notice that even in English there’s no satisfying opposite for “evil” - “good” is a way more general concept - both the forces that battle demons and the taste of a cheeseburger…
In most languages you’ll be able to render the concept of “evil” in a given context and meaning, but first you’d have to be completely clear on what you mean, and then you may find that you need several words to get the idea across.
I’m with Ravenman, what movies have you been watching? Modern Japanese films have delved heavily into the topics of anti-heros, villains driven to evil by circumstance and moral ambiguity in general, but this is the same general trend that filmmakers in America and Europe have also working with for a long time.
Go back to the old samurai movies of the 50’s and 60’s, and you’ll find they have the same good vs. evil structure as American cowboy movies of the same era. There’s even been a fair measure of idea-swapping between the two (The Seven Samurai -> The Magnificent Seven, among others).
Only in some circumstances, namely religious, supernatural or occult ones. What’s the opposite of the “evil slaveowner” or the “evil taxman”?
In Chinese Medicine classes, we were taught the same word **Ravenman **shares: xie, pronounced (very roughly) “jhooway”. Xie Qi is “evil qi”, or invading qi which makes one ill. It’s one of the “Pernicious Influences” which refer to all external illness factors - some qi, some material. (Of course all matter is qi, but I won’t get into that here.)
There is most definitely a sense of evil in Chinese Shamanic religions. Much of really ancient medicine is aimed at placating and erradicating demons and devils which are fairly similar to our own, except most likely to be pissed off ancestral spirits or demons sent by a rival shaman to attack you and make you ill.
Taoism is a little different on the matter, and would probably phrase it more as “order” and “chaos”. Everything that is is required for the universe to function, whereas the concept of “evil” seems to include a desire to irradicate all evil things. Erradication of things we don’t consider “good” is not only impossible in Taoism, but undesirable. It is the movement - the influence of order on chaos and vice-versa - which creates qi and makes existence possible.
For example, because so much of Traditional Chinese Medicine today is heavily Taoist influenced, we no longer speak of “erradicating” of “destroying” a symptom or illness caused by “evil qi”, but of “dispersing” or “moving” things to create better health. A wind invasion cannot be destroyed, but the wind can be dispersed (removed from the body) so the patient regains health.
I always thought “Pernicious Influence” would be an excellent Band Name.
Two examples that come readily to mind are Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon and Princess Mononoke. I’m not sure any of the characters in those films could be characterized as “good” or “evil.” Each character has his or her own motives, and sometimes the motives and actions of one character create conflict with the motives and actions of another. No clear villains, though.
Interesting discussion. I was not familiar with the concept of xie.
Or it could mean they are more realistic about how things in the real world are not always a simple Black-and-White binary proposition and sometimes it seems God IS neutral on the issue. And anyway what do we say about Leone’s or Tarantino’s films, then? Was The Man With No Name really “The Good”? Do we really believe The Bride is an agent of justice or it is a good thing to deliver Marcellus’ suitcase?
One problem with your sampling is that, for instance, Mononoke-Hime is deliberately a complex piece where facile Good Guy/Bad Guy dichotomies are avoided. Contrast however Laputa, Castle in the Sky, also by Miyazaki, which features a more clear-cut conflict between the innocent and the power-hungry (though it does contain “grey” characters). You are seeing is the “cream of the crop” of the respective entertainment industries. They produce just as much simpleminded “White Hat/Black Hat” material as Western media, we just don’t get to see as much of it.
I would have trouble with this hypothesis, especially since the God v. Satan/Good v. Evil dichotomy was very much influenced by Zoroastrianism, which originated in the Middle East. So, no, I don’t think this is a uniquely Western concept at all.
Well, IMHO, you’re wrong there. Jade Fox was a greedy, obsessive murderer who used people like wrenches. Sge had a few ‘good’ traits, but they didn’t exactly make her anythign mroe than a slightly realistic villain. Aside from that, the two retired martial artists were certainly the heroes. There were a couple of characters in between, of course, but that hardly changes things.
I haven’t seen Crouching Tiger yet, but Mononoke received a number of comments from reviewers in Japan about how it avoided the good-guy vs. bad-guy setup featured in most other movies (and particularly animated ones). So its neutrality is more of an exception than a representative example.
And, come to think of it, most of those Saturday afternoon kung fu movies I remember watching as a kid were pretty heavy handed on the whole good guy–bad guy bit.
Well yes, but all “Western” religions have their origins in the Middle East. Perhaps my language was imprecise. I’m wondering if there is a clear-cut good/evil dichotomy in far Eastern religions.
Possibly so. Which is why I opened this thread – to fight my own ignorance, as it were.
I’m still diappointed we haven’t heard from any native speakers of Chinese or Japanese. (Aren’t there some on this board?) I’d really like to get their input on how Western concepts of “good” and “evil” match up with their own.
How about “Righteous”? That can equally well refer to Michael, the avenging archangel, or to the paymaster who makes sure his workers get their due and settles errors in the accounts fairly. And the opposite of either of those would, I think, be considered “evil”.
Sublight is fluent in Japanese (and has weighed in). Off the top of my head, jovan and scr4 are also Japanese speakers (indeed, scr4is Japanese, despite moving to Alabama without bothering to call me for one last drink, not that I’m bitter or anything, no not at all*).
