It’s been years since I even came close to being in a physical confrontation.
Last time it happened I was at a bar with a date. Some guys next to us were talking rather loudly about their racist views. Every other word out of their mouth was ngger this and ngger that. It was annoying me but really upsetting my date.
I can’t remember exactly what I said to them but I do remember of making it a point of saying: “Look I’m not trying to gedt you to stop using that word but could you please keep the volume down?”
Things went as well as you might of expected. Somehow, I got suckered into exchanging words with these guys. (Despite the girl I was with asking me not to.) My stupid, I know.
Anyway, the conversation escalated to the point of them insulting the girl I was with. That was raelly pssing me off. So one of the idiots starts with the “You wanna step outside?” bit. I delined because I have two sons that count on me NOT getting arrested for stupid shit. Plus, the girl I was with was really freaking out at this point. I felt bad about that.
Still, even tho’, I know I did the right thing, I remember walking away from that altercation feeling totally emasculated.
So I ask you Dopers: Is the ever a time to get in a fist fight?
Yes. But I don’t think this is one of those times. Where were the staff (bartender, bouncer, etc…)? Did you mention the jerks to them? Were there no other tables to go to? Why not just leave if the staff won’t do anything?
When I worked hospitality, I didn’t want an angry drunk(s) chasing away my customers (and therefore, my tips!), and so that’s what we had security for. So the patrons didn’t feel obligated to take matters into their own hands. Things get messy then.
Your date’s safety and happiness will not be enhanced by you getting into a punch-up with the local yokels. Neither will your own, in all likelihood. If it’s the kind of bar where getting the staff involved wouldn’t do any good, then, unfortunately, you might just want to drink somewhere else.
Sucks. I’m sorry your night got spoiled by these people.
Thanks. Just so we don’t get off on the wrong foot in this thread: I fully admit I handled the confrontation itself badly. We should have just got up and left.
When I say I did the right thing, I’m referring to that last little bit where I declined to fight the guy.
You should rarely, if ever, throw the first punch. I was tempted to say never at all, but just because I can’t think of a good reason now doesn’t mean one won’t occur to me or somebody else later.
Fistfights are dangerous, messy things. It’s easy to get hurt badly, or to hurt someone more seriously than you intend; and if you throw the first point over words, you’re not likely to have a leg to stand on after you get arrested. And you almost certainly WILL be arrested even if you’re entirely in the right.
I’d reserve fighting for times when I am absolutely certain there is no way to avoid it, and that means when the other person has actively initiated the violence. Insulting my manhood or my mother or even my wife won’t do it; the other guy has to attempt to do me or another person physical harm, and I must have no retreat reasonably available. (Reasonable retreat doesn’t apply in my own home, of course.)
Once the fight begins, I am going to assume the other person is trying to kill me. And in that case I am going to keep at it until I am no longer able or he is no longer able or willing, which hopefully means he’s surrendered or retreated, but might mean until he’s unconscious and could mean until he’s dead. I’m not adding the dead qualifier to be a tough guy; I’m adding it because fights that last more than a minute or so tend to escalate. Somebody grabs a weapon or goes for the throat with their teeth.
I was at a hockey game once with my 13 year old daughter. The lug-heads two rows behind me were way-over the top with language. A) I asked them to knock-off the language for the benefit of those around us including my daughter. next period… B) I demanded they stop the F-bombs, J-off’s and whatever else. They taunted me after “B” and started in on my daughter- NO-ONE in the the crowded house helped- I got security- they hauled these jerks out of the building.
They were waiting for me outside the building as I walked with my daughter- her first game; only the two of us. they openly challenged me to fight. I ignored them- walked around. They provoked me further calling my daughter a slut. That was the beginning of a night I wish didn’t happen.
i did indeed get the first punch in- I hoped to rip the guys head off. missed with a few punches- caught it on the back of the head with something- The cops tried to drag me off to the pokey- one guy was fairly wounded with a busted nose and I had several weeks and months of bruises and scars and explaining to do with mother… All in all; I’d do it again in an instant. Fuckers
Is it ever ok to get in a fist fight? Yes. I do agree with Skald that it’s usually not ok to throw the first punch.
I have no problem with what the OP did in his situation. Jerks need to be called out on their behavior. If the jerk responds with “you wanna go outside,” he doesn’t actually want to fight. If he did, he’d start it right there.
I understand why you acted that way. I really do. But you were wrong. Consider how lucky you and your daughter werel. What if they’d won the fight? What if they’d beaten you badly while forcing your daughter watched? What if they had killed you, and then killed her to eliminate witnesses? What if you’d killed one of them and ended up going to prison because of what you did? What if your daughter had blamed herself?
You endangered your daughter’s life & safety over words. Not cool. Evil!Skald and his usual online silliness aside, violence is a last resort.
The only time to result to fighting is in self-defense. I’ve only ever been in one fight in my life which was escalated out of control by the others involved; admittedly, I almost certainly could have prevented it. However, the moment my friend had people hitting him and had taken him to the ground, I did what it took to protect him.
That said, there have been plenty of other situations I’ve been in where they easily could have resulted in fights, but having the cooler head made the situation much easier than fighting would have. And even if they initiate violence, it doesn’t mean it needs to be returned in kind to diffuse it either. For instance, on one occassion in high school, I was sucker punched by someone interested in starting a fight, that I laughed it off rather than kicking his ass saved me getting suspended for a week and probably was far more humiliating than getting beat up. Although, it does still bug me, even years later, that I got detention for getting sucker punched and not fighting back, but whatever.
But as Skald pointed out, even if they’re calling your daughter/wife/date a slut, chances are she won’t really think much of it if she even remembers it months later, but getting in a fight over it definitely instills it, makes the situation worse even if you come out unharmed, and has enormous risk of serious injuries or death. That said, that’s not to say that everything said should be shrugged off, if they make an immediate threat that you believe they would fulfill (eg, going back to their car to get a gun), but that’s really just more of a special case of self defense than fighting over words themselves.
Unless someone says something along the lines of “I’m gonna cut off your genitals with this here hacksaw”, I really don’t think mere words can effect your “manhood”.
It has only happened to me a couple of times and both were long ago as “yuts”.
The most memorable was when two of us went to a Tigers game downtown and got lost in the city long after the game ended. I was 16 and the friend was 17. We suddenly found ourselves surrounded by a gang. The two leaders asked, “Can we borrow a quarter?” (That alone tells you how long ago it was.) I knew the next step was a severe beat down or worse. I stepped forward and swung on the big guy and we took off running. That was the start of my running career.
It was absolutely the right thing to do at the time.
While we were dating, I met my wife and her sister at a restaurant with a bar.
She had (has) looong hair - knee-length at the time, and as I entered the door, I could see the drunken frat boys next to her taking her hair and dipping it in a glass of beer.
Giggling to themselves at the funniest thing evar, they proceeded to pour beer down the back of her hair and coat - gently, so as not to tip her off.
As I started over, she noticed what they were doing, and went off verbally, and pointing her finger at him. He slapped her hand away, then shoved her.
With a good running start, I hit him low with all 250 pounds I had. Kind of snapped him backwards, making him hit his face on the edge of the bar & down he went. I then started on asshole #2. Both went to the hospital, and witnesses told the cops how they’d been assholes since they got there, and I was eventually let go.
I don’t like to fight really, but sometimes a little violence can be a good thing.
I like to think that they’ll never do something like that to another innocent girl, but who knows.
It’s never appropriate to get into a fist fight. You’re likely to just hurt your hand. Instead, you should smash his face with the heel of your open hand. This is a better striking surface.
Fist fights are always a bad idea. They’re totally unpredictable, and so many things can go wrong. In my town, there’s a guy in a coma because he got into a fist fight (presumably not his fault), and his head bounced on the pavement. His brain was swelling so they had to cut open his skull to relieve the pressure. I have no idea if he’s going to be okay.
There are a lot of stupid, fucked up people in the world, and if you value your life, your mobility, and mental capacity, it’s best to appeal to people in charge (managers, security, police) if someone is behaving in a dickish manner. As someone mentioned upthread, most public venues have a real problem with assholery and will deal with it much better than you can.
The only time I would get into a fist fight is if my life or the life of someone I care about was at risk. I have a wife and two kids and me being out of action, even if it’s just being sore for beating the crap out of someone, is bad for business.
That said, I’m a vindictive MF and I am sure I could think of a way to exact revenge, if I was that pissed. Otherwise if I’m in a public place, and the staff can’t handle the instigating idiots, I make a point of leaving and letting the management know (by letter) how poorly they handled the situation.
Outside of a boxing ring, with rules & a referee, getting into a serious fistfight is risking your life and the life of the person you’re fighting. Now, the odds of death of coma are relatively slight, but they’re still too high. They ONLY reason to do such a thing is when you or an innocent is already in danger of death or injury and the only way to change the odds in your favor is to fight back.