Someone is going to have to define self-defense because the minute someone makes a move to strike, all bets are off with me. It only takes one punch to seriously hurt someone and I don’t that someone to be me. I can put up with all the yammering some idiot wants to do but the minute he cocks an arm back or lunges it’s on. 25 years ago I showed up to a gunfight with a pencil and the second that thing was pointed at me I would have drove that pencil so deep into his eye that his basil ganglia would have a peep hole. To this day I have no idea why he didn’t point the gun at me, but I am grateful he didn’t.
I know a guy who was walking down the street one night and a few of guys started a fight with him, he punched one guy in the chest and the guy died. He was not charged because the guys started the fight with him. Oddly enough he got into a fight a few years ago and was stabbed in the heart and died.
When you think about it, fist fighting is just so stupid. Very few people know how to do it, even “winners” end up hurt and risk jail time and/or legal hassles. You also look like a complete tit grabbing some dudes shirt.
When I was doing the pledging thing, the big brothers had a party at the house. We pledges were there to… be pledges, I guess. For whatever reason I went home early that night. Apparently a fight broke out between guys in the frat and the football team. Well, football team dudes are really good at fighting (including one of our big bros who was the starting free safety). I came to the house the next am for a pledge session, and these idiots were trying to talk to us about the virtues of the fraternity with shiners, split lips, etc. They looked like fucking tools and I lost respect for virtually every guy in the house that day. And of course it was over something stupid.
I’m way too old to care about any social consequence that might come from avoiding a fight. What, you think I’m a coward? Not gonna spend a lot of time worried about that. You touch me, you will be dealing with the police. That’s about it… I used to care in high school; not so much since then.
Just also want to say, I love the term “throw hands.” As well as “squabble” and “donnybrook.”
Guessing you’re not from St. Louis? And/or a hockey fan?
The Blues/Blackhawks rivalry is a pretty known thing around here. Games are often intense and there are usually fans of both teams abundant at the games.
It’s still no excuse to fight but I’m pickin up what he was puttin down. I’ve been at sports games with intense rivalries (especially Mizzou football games etc) and stupid crap like described gets amped up to a 10 because there’s already an extra “I don’t like you because we are rivals” thing going on from the start.
Two summers ago, when Bill O’Reilly was on the air daily trying to incite townhall riots, my ultra conservative neighbor (and town councilman) decided to park his garbage on my lawn in protest of my politics & proximity of my house to his house.
I asked him to move it. (he laughed)
I told him to move it. (all I got was a threat)
I started to move it myself.
That was when he swung on me and connected. Once, twice. He was going for three when a little light went off in my brain and I hit back. Hard. I broke his nose. (shamefully this is fully verifyable)
I may be the only person you know who has ever, truly, broken the nose of a politician. So help me Og.
I avoid fights like the plague. I’m not very good at them and frankly there is rarely any benefit from them. Unless you’re paid to fight or it’s in self defense then there is no value to them.
Is there ever a time to get in a fist fight? Yes. I’ve been in more than a couple, mostly to break up a fight. If I see a fight happening, I have this almost overwhelming need to stop it. Thus far, I’ve always been successful.
Is there ever a time to start a fight? It would take extraordinary circumstances for me to think that it was a good idea to start an altercation. So extraordinary I can’t even think what they might be. I’m not willing to rule out the possibility, but clearly it seems remote (like on an astronomical scale).
I try to avoid them if at all possible, dental work is expensive. Not to mention calling into work “i’m in jail” isn’t very impressive.
Once I was walking with my gf down the strip on a busy friday night. She was wearing a t-shirt that had a number 8 on it. From behind me some one shouted number 8 is a slut. I turned around it was some meat-head with 3 of his meat-head drunk friends. We just kept on walking.
I have zero tolerance for men beating up the women in my life I care about though. I’ll hunt them down like dogs with extreme prejudice.
No, if you read my post I said I understood what he was saying when the other poster didn’t when he mentioned the Blues and the Blackhawks but did not explain further. And that I also understood how intense the atmosphere gets at sports games where there is such a rivalry.
If you see I said in that same post: “it’s still no excuse to fight” but merely I understood the point he was making that the dumb decision was easier to make in that particular atmosphere, getting caught up in the moment.
One other thing to keep in mind is that fist fights look a whole lot different at 20 than they do at 40. The fights I got into as a young man would never escalate near that point now or I wouldn’t be in that original situation.
But to address the OP, yes there are times when in a clear and present danger that a fight is necessary. And that may not include waiting for the first punch. And I wouldn’t call it a fist fight as I’ll probably be going after someones knee.
Just realized that my post seemed a brag. Its not. It was a low point in my life, a humiliation. An unnecessary expense. A court date to defend myself & what happened that could have resulted in jail time. I’ve lost the friendship & respect of a lot of neighbors who somehow thought I’d just stand there & get brained. That side of my property is now uncomfortable to walk on because I don’t know what he’ll do. He does his best to get his dog to crap on our lawn. He puts up ugly Tea-party campaign signs right next to the property line each election day now. He’s made a show of shopping for handguns from the trunk of some lady’s car parked in his driveway. He stares at my kids when we shovel snow. And unless I want to move, I’m stuck with him until he moves to Florida & dies.
There isn’t a moment I don’t regret this. There isn’t a moment that I wish I could have thought of a way to have kept this confrontation from happening. The Judge even asked why I didn’t just leave it there & then sneak out at night to move his garbage off of my lawn. I wish I’d thought of that.
This isn’t a lesson to aspire to. This is a lesson to learn from & hopefully to avoid to the very limit of fight or flight.
Did talking, running and attempting to contact the authorities fail?
Then, then, brawling might be on the table. Still wouldn’t be happy about it.
There’s no winners in a fistfight. If you’re the one standing at the end, congratulations, you are now twice as likely to do jailtime. Trained in martial arts? Congratulations, in some jurisdictions that knowledge alone will damn you with the equivalent force of bringing a lethal weapon to a fight. Barely won it? Congratulations, you’ve most likely fractured several of your knuckles and you won’t be allowed to work for a week with that shiner.
And so on and so forth. There needs to be a hella good reason to justify all the downsides.
Yes. It’s probably right to fight in some situations - in that if everyone did it properly it would be good for society. But I’m not going to risk myself and take one for the good of society. Too self-interested for that.
I am not following you here? You are on your own property and this guy attacked you and you went in front of the judge for what reason? Aren’t you allowed to protect yourself? I mean I am not going out of my way for a fight but if a guy throws a punch at me, I don’t plan on letting him use my face as a punching bag. I assume you had witnesses that this guy threw punches first, etc. so did you get arrested too? I had always assumed that if someone is hitting you, that you can protect yourself–is that not true? If so, ignorance fought but it does seem odd that can’t protect yourself.
And as for the judges response he wanted you to trespass on your neighbors property and possibly get shot or something? Seems like an odd instruction.
There were no witnesses & he tried to say I started it. We both filed, both went before the same judge & he threw it out. His opinion before that was rendered was that I should have never set off the neighbor by trying to move the garbage after the neighbor threatened me and that I could have come back at 2AM and moved it to the curb after he was asleep.
Hindsight: costs social, costs financial, costs professional, ability to say I’ve never had to sit on a bench in court waiting for my case to be heard, costs to reputation, etc… yeah, I kinda wished I’d thought of that. Setting off the crazy is never a good idea, especially when the crazy lives next door.
I see. Yes without witnesses I can see where you would have got arrested too. Too bad about your crazy neighbor, so far I have been lucky with neighbors but I always worried when I moved. Thanks for coming back and explaining it, I do appreciate it.
