Pretty much my take. And it will only be a fistfight for as long as it takes me to pick up something heavy, pointed or both. If some neanderthal is forcing me to fight, I am not going to obey the Marquis of Fantailler rules.
Like many on this board I aspire toward a world that is free for the need of fist fighting… that said I’m can succumb to my baser reptilian instincts under the right circumstances, but it takes a lot.
The OP was right to not go outside. The day of John Wayne is gone. Going outside to fight is just asking to get ganged up on or worse.
COUNT BLUTCHER What was the garbage? Was it a bag of leaves? A pop bottle? Campaign sign? Were you throwing the garbage back on his lawn or were you taking it to the dumpster? I’m usually a take the high road kind of guy, but what the judge suggested was stupid. Wake up and sneak out in the middle of the night to pick up trash? Do they require local judges to have legal training where you live (some places don’t) because that seems like a really unusual mandate to give to a feuding neighbor. What hi-jinks might come enter the mind of a pissed off, sleep deprived, feuding neighbor while he’s picking up garbage at 2am? If you missed the high road, it was not separating yourself and calling the police when he refused to move it.
THEO S
I’m right there with you. I wish your story had a happier ending. For all the “first punch” talk, I don’t know where everyone lives, but where I live, as long as there is a reasonable threat (IE: 2 scumbags waiting outside for you and your 13yo daughter, after you got them kicked out, and acting threatening towards you… There’s not a jury in my state that would convict you of assault for hitting first. That’s if there was a prosecuting attorney willing to waste their time. ‘Course that’s all moot if they stab or shoot you to death… always a risk (even if you don’t fight).
I could never see myself getting into one of those “let’s you and me step outside” situations, but I do take a very pro-active approach to self-defense. If I feel there’s a good enough chance of someone attempting to hurt me and/or my family, I’d be all over their ass. This leaves open the possibility of me being wrong and having essentially started a fight, but that’s a risk I’m willing to take.
Everything in our culture repeats “stand up for yourself!” Sometimes that means getting into a fight. Whether you’re willing to risk personal injury or other consequences is a different matter. Some people are just animals that prey on good people who they think won’t fight back.
If you’re honest-to-goodness willing to fight someone for the kind of harassment the two knuckleheads at the hockey game did, or the next door neighbor who dumped trash on his lawn and then punched him when he told him to move it, you’re probably actually less likely to get victimized like that. In my opinion, those two posters did absolutely everything right, but unfortunately “right” doesn’t always have perfect consequences. Sometimes you have to choose between doing the right thing, or doing the easy thing.
I intervened in a situation where a guy was punching at a stooped over and non-resisting woman. The gut threw the first punch, but not at me. I ended up with 60 some stitches at the ER, and the guy spent the night in jail.
I’m not sure if this really counts. It was outside my apartment door, and when verbally pleading with him to stop didn’t work, I went into my apt and found the closest thing I could to a weapon. I clobbered him over the head with a tennis racket.
So yes, I can imagine and have experienced circumstances where IMO it is ok to start a fight, kinda.
That still qualifies as self-defense in my book.
Then I don’t get what point you’re trying to make to me. If I’m saying sports is a dumb excuse to fight, and you’re saying sports is a dumb excuse to fight, why is it necessary to explain but really you see it’s this big deal sports rivalry… Well, so what? I can’t say that I care how stupid people get over this particular sports rivalry, it’s still doesn’t in any way justify starting a fight.
The answer to “but it was Hawks v. Blues, doesn’t that justify the beat down?” is still “Uh, no, why on earth would it?” It’s still just a sports team, it’s still a really dumb excuse for a fight. The specific teams involved are irrelevant.
Intense sports rivalries can create a hostile environment. I am not sure how “into” sports you are, but some people take it VERY (overly?) seriously. It’s an automatic me vs. you environment. It doesn’t matter that it is “just sports” - some people DO care and get wrapped up in it. We do agree that it doesn’t mean you’re supposed to go punch people but I understand the environment he was talking about.
It doesn’t matter WHAT sports rivalry, but I happen to actually be from St. Louis and a Blues fan - I felt like semi-sticking up for someone because I had local knowledge of something others might not have had. You had no clue what he meant. I still don’t think you do because you don’t think anything to do with sports should make anyone angry I guess. Which in a perfect world it shouldn’t.
I have been in a “sorta” fight exactly once in my adult life.
It was infront of two beat policemen and the one and only time I had taken my father out for a “night on the town” (as opposed to a few beers in the local)
There were 5 of us: me, dad, new wife and close friend. Took a free shuttle from one club to the next. Some drunk jerks were mouthing off with foul language.
Friend exchanged words (I don’t know what) I turned back to see the two jerks “acting threatening” towards him. I stand staunchly beside to demonstrate that I “had his back” (yeah right - I’m a puny shrimp). Fight duly starts - I jump on one guy.
Police intervene. They send both parties in opposite directions.
The stupidity of it all was that I was sober (I was driving later). Would I do it again? Absolutely. Was it stupid? Yes.
Hey, I’m really into live theatre. That means it’s perfectly justifiable for me to punch you in the face, right?
If going to sports events makes someone prone to believing that violence is okay, I suggest:
[ol]
[li]Said person needs to seriously re-examine his priorities, and[/li][li]Perhaps he should be avoiding sporting events so he doesn’t lose control, much like, I suppose, an alcoholic.[/li][/ol]
I don’t know where you got that idea, since that’s not what I said. The first time OR the second time.
As to the actual question I did ask, you purport to agree with me that there is no possible way that a sports rivalry – a game, for crying out loud – justifies violence. So why are you arguing with me? And why are you also saying it’s okay, cuz, you know, sports make people mad?
Yeah, I have this crazy idea that adults should behave like adults in public. And I have this even crazier idea that adults should behave themselves even when and especially when they’re angry. And that adults who behave like immature assholes with impulse-control problems shouldn’t be patted on the head and told that beating someone up was okay.
Gah! I was just tying to add in some local knowledge. And I never ever said it was okay to hit people, ever. Stop saying that I said that it was, I never did. I only said that I understood what that one particular comment’s meaning was. It doesn’t mean I agree! He didn’t explain what the comment meant so I tried to.
And just being sports rivals is no reason to get in a fight. But that’s not what the case actually was here. It was just at the event where some guys were being assholes in front of his kid daughter - one called her a slut! The hostile environment of said sports rivalry just fed all of that further. It was just one comment! But he didn’t explain it so I did. Please reread his post and mine, you will see I never once said anyone should be hitting anyone.
Have to agree here. Fistfights are just as dangerous and deadly as any other fight (knife, gun, etc), but in my state we can carry. If you are the instigator, it could get you killed a lot sooner than you think.
The last fistfight I was involved in lasted exactly 2 punches, until a Kimber convinced the guy that suckerpunched me to stop. He broke my nose and cut up my face with the first one (from behind, and had a wrench in his hand), the second was just a quick one before I got to my feet.
Police had no issue with my response, as I did not escalate the fight at all prior to producing my own weapon, but rather stopped it immediately.
To start a fight or voluntarily participate in one? Never.
Never start a fight, but always the one who ends the fight.
I would say yes under the following circumstances:
[ul]
[li]You can win[/li][li]You can get away with it[/li][li]You have the Almighty Hand of Righteousness on your side:D[/li][/ul]