Is there much difference between Chinese and American citizens' perspectives?

Great Debates
1

I had a recent conversation with a Chinese student, Ling, who studies with my girlfriend here in Paris. Long story short, though I spend a lot of time with Chinese people here in Paris, I’ve never gotten the nerve to spoil the upbeat cultural conversations to talk about something political, but this time my curiosity got the best of me. I asked Ling what he new about the censorship that gets so much press outside of China.

I didn’t want to put him on the spot, and he was a little shy, but he gave me a response that made me think. He said he knew a little bit about the censorship, but he thought it was necessary. “We’re a big country,” he said (translation from French/Chinese), “We have over a billion people. The government has to be careful. They have to protect and maintain some sort of stability.”

When he said that, I got to thinking about people in the US who would say the same thing about our government, that they need certain powers in order to protect our well-being and that questionning what the government does is dangerous/anti-american/treasonous/etc.

Am I exaggerating? I’m not trying to compare the extent to which things are hidden from the public by the two governments, only that the perspectives by the citizens might not be that different.

As usual, just curious.

2

To make a long story short, sure the perspectives are different. Radically different.

You’re talking about the difference between a 200-year-old democracy vs. a 5,000+ year old civilization which has never known a day of democracy in its existence. One civilization is based on the concepts of western philosophy, and the other on eastern philosophy.

Religion, history of uprisings, the concept of a united government . . . The list of mind-bogglingly huge differences between China and the U.S. is pretty long.

3

Not to mention that China has a number of different languages and ethnicities within it’s borders and huge inequities in wealth between the west and the east. They also have Russia and North Korea as neighbors, the Taiwan issue, a number of border disputes, and the knowledge that dynasties come and go.

4

Linty Fresh and DanBlather, I’ve studied Chinese history and Eastern philosophy. I live with a Taiwanese girl. So, I’m pretty familiar with all of that.

I’m not asking whether China and America are similar. I’m asking what the difference is with a majority of Americans agreeing that they should surrender certain liberties to the government in return for stbility and Chinese people doing essentially the same thing for the same reason.

People criticize China and the American companies that facilitate the Chinese government’s censorship, while they let more or less the same thing happen in the US.

I’m wondering what the difference is there, in the people’s perspectives, not the difference between China and the US as countries or as populations in general.

5

Whoa! Got a cite for that? Also, you’re wording is pretty vague with respect to “certain liberties” and “rights.”

For example are you saying that most Americans think it’s OK to surrender certain aspects of the first amendment or privacy? Are they talking about getting probed at airports or bringing back the sedition laws? And is any of this comparable with what’s going on in China? You need to define the argument a bit more clearly here.

6

You guys know that I usually know the difference between “your” and “you’re,” right? You’re aware of the fact that I actually passed 6th grade English, right?

:smack: :smack: :smack: I’m always doing this to myself!! :smack: :smack: :smack:

7

A cite for what?

The most recent Pew numbers I’ve seen for the American civil liberties part:

That’s what I’m talking about.

8

The problem is that you are trying to draw lines between isolated things which may appear to be superficially similar but really aren’t. By your arguments, any itrusion by the U.S. government can be connected by a direct line to something in Chinese policy. Even if the U.S. does something similar to that in China, the motives and general philosophy may be very different and that would make them not equal according to the terms of your question.

9

I don’t get “Americans are eager to give up civil liberties” from any of this, unless you think that “protecting the country against terrorism” and “civil liberties” are mutually exclusive. Even if you do, it certainly doesn’t say that the majority of Americans aren’t worried about civil rights. It just says that the threat of terrorism occupies a large part in American minds. Justifiably so.

The second paragraph, if it supports a side at all, could actually be used to argues against your supposition that Americans are willing to give up their civil liberties. If they were, no one would care about the whole wiretapping issue, would they? Then again, reading it, I don’t think it could be used to argue anything.

These statistics are irrelevant to the discussion.

10

Oh yeah, and what does any of this have to do with China?

11

That’s not the impression I meant to give. I’ve tried to make it pretty clear that I mean the people’s reactions to what the government does. China, I should hope, is far, far, far more controlling than the United States government.

I’m specifically referencing the way people of these countries may view the, what seem to me, overreaching/intrusive practices.

As for the statistics, perhaps I’m viewing them with a bias, but I’m surprised when I read, “more Americans are concerned that the government hasn’t yet gone far enough in protecting the country against terrorism than are concerned that the government has gone too far in restricting civil liberties.” People are saying the government hasn’t gone far enough just after they’ve found out about the illegal wiretapping, a move whose effectiveness is questionable to begin with.

Admittedly, the context of “hasn’t gone far enough” could change the way I feel about it. If “hasn’t gone far enough” means “not doing a good job,” then fine.

To clarify, I think the administration has gone *too far *to do a pretty bad job.

Perhaps we’re reading them differently.

Nothing. It has everything to do with the American public opinion that I’m comparing to that of the Chinese student’s opinion (I should add that all the documentaries and articles I read on the subject reflect this idea…nope, no sites, so take it with a grain of salt). Other than that, I don’t know how to find Chinese public opinion polls, or if they have them, so what would you like me to show about China?

I actually regret asking this question. I have a tendancy to just ask questions as a means of evaluating where I stand as far as my line of thinking compared to others, but this subject is pretty trivial.

I just want to assure you that I’m not some crazed person that thinks the Bush Administration has brain washed the US or that the information it keeps from the public is on par with the Chinese government. I voted for Bush once (I regret it).

As someone coming from a very “red state,” I was surprised to hear a Chinese person arguing the same argument for his country’s intrusiveness that many people back home would present for the present administration’s aversion to established practices.

Twas a stupid question, I presume.

12

Kind of, yeah. I don’t hear “many people” either on the boards or IRL support illegal government intrusion. As the statistics that you yourself posted show, many people are rather concerned at the latest spate of civil rights issues. I don’t know how long you’ve been in Paris, but trust me: The wiretapping issue has been getting a lot of press, and reactions back home are intense.

Also:

I still think you’re confused about the issues of counter-terrorism and civil rights. Saying that the government hasn’t done enough about terrorism is not the same thing as saying that it’s OK to violate civil rights. You do realize that counter-terrorism involves more than wire-tapping American citizens, don’t you?

I think you mean cites, and I’m afraid I’ll need the whole salt lick for this one. Do you really think that Chinese opinion polls–such as they exist–are worth anything in forming an opinion on the subject? And even if they were that this somehow indicative of the situation in America?

It goes back to the difference between China and America as a whole. Attempting to draw parallels between the two isn’t comparing apples and oranges. It’s comparing apples and carburetors.

13

Meh. People is people, whether they are America’s people or the Peoples people. Fear motivates in both cases.

That said, in America the tradition is one of individuals who are willingly giving up some degree of individual freedom out of fear. In China the tradition has never been that of the individual, that individualist mentality is just emerging. The individual Chinese citizen does not need to be frightened into giving up rights since they have never had them to start with. Instead the motivating fear is the fear that the central authority has of what might happen as the populus develops a sense of rights and freedoms. In America the powers frighten the populus into conceding rights by playing up the outside threat. In China the central authorities fear the threat that may arise from within.

Same perhaps, but different as well.

14

Doesn’t really matter where I am. These days, one can watch TV in Yemen and read the paper in Australia while he’s sitting in Kansas City. I know it’s gotten a lot of press there.

Agreed

15

If the wiretapping scandal is evidence of authoritarian tendencies in America, why is similar wiretapping completely legal in most of Europe? Why compare America to China and not America to Europe or Europe to China?

16

Hmm what I thought the OP was asking, is whether the same way people in America justify giving up freedoms (as said in the above poll) for security, people in China justify giving up even more freedom for security?

So were you talking about American and Chinese perspectives on the censorship that the chinese government enforces?

Or am I rambling?

(gotta love the question marks)

17

Thanks, Sri Theo…it’s all about perspectives. I’m not comparing countries…at all.

18

Chinese think China is the center of the world, Americans think America is the center of the world. Deriving from this, I see similar geopolitical attitudes of rejecting accountability for their actions before the international community of nations.