Every now and then, I’ll see/read something about homelessness in the United States. Is this really a problem?
I’m well aware there are some people with mental illness or severe drug/alcohol abuse who are unable to maintain a permanent place of residence. They are in and out of shelters, but are unable to maintain control of their lives.
But, is there really a problem with “riches to rags?” They’ll often mention people who went from a middle class lifestyle to living on the streets.
What I’d love to know is whether America is unique in this regard. A few months ago, I tried googling this question and came up dry. So, how about it non-American Dopers. Do you have this problem? If so, to what degree? If not, why not? Or, perhaps I should say, how not?
A social worker I know, who worked for years with the homeless in a big city, described two populations - people who fit your “with mental illness or severe drug/alcohol abuse who are unable” category, and people who were doing OK until they got divorced and lost their job in the same month (or some similar chance combination of big events) and couldn’t weather the consequences. Imagine covering your bills but not having a cushion saved, not having family or friends in the position to help, and a pretty big disaster hits - not Katrina, but getting sick without insurance, a personally big disaster. She said either 1/3 or 2/3 were the one case and 2/3 or 1/3 were the other (I don’t remember which way).
When I was homeless and in the shelter specifically reserved for those of us with a psych history (aka, the “homeless mentally ill”) , I’d say the ratio probably broke down like this:
60% = real problems; if cheap housing had been readily available, many of these folks would have been living indoors w/o social-services help some of the time, but would probably have missed rent, gotten kicked out for being disruptive, etc, from time to time and therefore woud’ve been on homeless intermittently. Cheap housing not being readily available in NYC in the mid-80s, though, they were perpetually homeless
20% = psych diagnosis history a fluke; these folks were poor and unskilled and had had something upend their housing situation and with cheap housing unavailable had ended up in the streets. Nothing really wrong with them, if cheap housing had been available they would’ve been living indoors, stable, etc.
20% = these folks were not poor and/or were not unskilled; some of them had unravelled when something had happened, some had just been hit by a nasty series of events, some of us had minds /personalities such that we have a harder time than others in getting socially reconnected when our stable lives got upended than others might; what we had in common that separated us from other middle-class / skilled folks was lack of helpful family. Many had no family to speak of, others were on the outs with family to the point they couldn’t say “help me” or couldn’t do so without family “help” including things even worse than being in a homeless persons’ shelter
If I could magically reassemble them for a reunion, I’d imagine most of those in the first group still alive today would be either in a dead-end “warehousing” soc service program or homeless on the streets, with a few heart-warming recovery-rehabilitation success stories; those in the second group would mostly have eventually gotten back on their feet and be employed and indoors, but some would’ve gone down to drugs or alcohol and be among the first population by now; and those of us in the third group more or less with the same outcomes except that those of us back on our feet would have better employment and living conditions by and large.
I also personally know a few people who are “homeless” because they want to be. You know the story, get sick of working for The Man, sell all your possesions, buy a van and travel, doing odd jobs when you need money and sleep in your van or crash with friends. It does happen, and statistically they’d be considered “homeless”, but not really a “problem”, IMHO.
Yes, in my observation, there’s a problem with homelessness in the UK and Ireland, particularly in the larger cities. Though a distinction is made between “homeless” who are housed by the government in (usually shitty) temporary accommodation, and “rough sleepers” who aren’t even in shelters.
And while San Francisco seemed to be worse than anywhere else I’ve ever been, Lisbon, Portugal was a very close second.
Please don’t judge the rest of the U.S. by San Francisco. The whole city is basically a homeless person’s retirement community. Homeless people travel to live there.
I drive past the homeless shelters every day on my way to and from, and its worse now than i ever remember it being.
The average age of homeless in the US is 9 years old according to most of the places I found on google… and I remember on the news a few years ago they showed a new homeless shelter being built near here that housed mostly familys and a large number of them they interviewed were people who had middle class jobs at one time. When I got laid off a few years back I could have been one of them if I had not had family support.
Don’t worry, I’m not - I’ve travelled extensively in the US - but it just seemed appropriate to mention, given that PBear42’s location happens to be the worst place in the world I’ve ever seen for it.
There was just an article in our local paper about a new count being done of the homeless in the city. The problem is, the group doing the count is the group that gets tax money based on how many homeless people there are. The last time they did the count, they got roasted in the media for their shoddy methodology, which consisted of just walking through inner-city areas and asking people if they were homeless, then asking them how many other homeless people they knew. If they said they knew 5 homeless people, then the counters would add 6 to the tally - one for the guy they asked, and five for the people he said he knew who were also homeless. No attempt was made to find out if the people were exaggerating, nor did they take into count duplication (i.e. Bob and Steve are homeless friends. Canvasser asks Bob if he knows any homeless people. Sure, he knows Steve. So that’s a count of 2. Then they ask Steve - sure, he knows Bob. Another count of 2. So the two homeless people magically become four.
So, after the criticism they got last time, what is the response of the organization this time? To refuse to allow the media to follow them and watch their methodology.
I often poke around historic buildings (read that derelict) and I observe a fair number of homeless. I would estimate the number of them with mental problems as quite high. Basically, any healthy person with a 3rd grade education is capable of earning a decent living in the US so it comes down to the ability to function in society minus any stupid mistakes (felonies, alcoholism, etc…).
…or having kids that you can’t afford, not having insurance when you’re sick or injured, etc.
I’m betting a fair number of homeless people are invisible to us, because they’re working during the day. They sleep in their cars or in rundown motels rather than park benches. They go to great pains to clean their clothes and maintain their appearance, so they don’t look like bums. Most probably aren’t homeless for long, but are always at high-risk due to low-paying jobs and lack of family support. I think most people associate drunken bums with the homeless, but I think that image is only one aspect of the larger picture.
Magiver, I think you’d have to define “decent living”. Minimum wage here in South Florida is $6.00/hour, and that’s not decent for a single person, let alone a person raising children. Cost of living prevents a personfrom saving much money on that wage. Being unemployed for just three weeks could be enough to evict you from an apartment, therefore hindering your ability to get another job. Public housing and most government programs have waiting lists or strict requirements (for instance, a college student surviving on student loans and part-time menial work may not qualify for food stamps, even if she is in dire need of them). The confluence of two or more major crises, coupled with lack of family support and decent savings, is enough to send even healthy folks to the street. I actually think more people would be visibly homeless if it weren’t for the widespread use of credit cards. Why sleep on a park bench when Visa lets you stay at the Motel 8?
When you go to the main train stations in the larger cities here, you see quite a few homeless. In Seoul, for example, there’s a very wide boulevard in front of Seoul Station. The pedestrian tunnel to get from the Namdaemun side of the boulevard to Seoul Station is quite wide. For the entire length of it, there are “homeless shacks” set up along the center. Outside the station itself are very many homeless who rely on a charitable group (I don’t know what the group’s name or affiliation is) to feed them daily.
That does not alter my premise - anyone with a 3rd grade education can make a living in this country provided you don’t do stupid things. Everything I needed to know about life was taught to me by teachers or my parents before I reached the age of 18. I knew I needed to advance myself through school or a trade, pay insurance as needed and breed within my earning capacity. All of that could be calculated with 3rd grade math.
You may have a valid point but unless you can validate it with some accurate numbers we can’t really discuss it. If you find something interesting to post on this I would find it interesting to read.
I’m defining decent living as between $30 and $60K per year. Minimum wage is a bullshit number that politicians use to get votes and has nothing to do with what an adult needs to earn. Please don’t lecture me on student loans, I worked my way through school and it took over 12 years to get a Bachelors Degree. The confluence of a low number of financial setbacks is a function of financial planning. And that is sorely lacking in the United States. We have the lowest savings rate of any developed nation.
I readily acknowledge your scenarios but there is a collective disregard for personal responsibility. In a land of unlimited wealth there is no excuse for the basic planning needed to function independently as adults.
But none of that takes in to account the realities of life. Advance yourself through school and trade only to find that your trade and education is worthless when your carrer field gets exported to india.
Have kids when you can afford them only to get laid off and no jobs are available to support those kids.
I litterally once got laid off the DAY I brought my son home from the hospital. All of sudden, no insurance, no income other than a rather pathetic unemployment check.
Last layoff I spent over a year of daily looking for a job…any job…that I could do with the back injury I had unexpectadly aquired…nothing to be found. I had family to help me out, a lot of people don’t.
Don’t be so smug and say it cant happen to you, becaue it can. I know lots of people who did everything right by the book and wound up in pretty dire straights…yes, even homeless.
I’m not smug, in fact I’m between jobs. I was also paying medical bills after the layoff. It would be an understatement to say that I feel your pain since you have a family. The stress level becomes higher with the additional responsibility. I’ve survived unscathed because I planned ahead of time for such an event. That means saving in advance, researching insurance, and staying out of debt.
You can post what-if tragedies all day long but that doesn’t change the fact that most of them would not occur in countries where financial planning is practiced. It’s virtually non-existent in this country.
Yeah, it does make all the differance in the world when you have a family. I’ve been through it a few times. The worst was this last time, because of the back surgery my savings had been depleted…I was out of work for a long time on unpaid medical leave…and then the layoff came after I got back…
but the point is, its not what-if tradgedys, its every day life. People trying to build a better life for themselves often face layoff, illness, republican administrations…all kinds of things happen you dont expect nor can you plan for every eventuality. your statement that anyone with a 3rd grade education can make a decent living is just pure fantasy.
Thanks jjimm, Anduril and Monty for your replies. I look forward to others.
BTW, jjimm, I realized even before I saw your follow-up post that you were circling up with my Location. To extend Shagnasty’s comment, we have a big homelessness problem because this is a relatively safe place to be homeless. About which, I have to say, I’m a little bit proud. I don’t share Magiver’s it’s-their-own-fault-so-f***-'em attitude. Sure, the panhandling gets tiresome, but mostly I wish there were some way to solve the problem. At least we try.