The two things I will remember crystal clearly about her ‘loving’ father are that the day after his daughter is returned to him after being ALLEGEDLY kidnapped and I’ll go ahead and assume raped and tortured for nine months is:
He mentioned that she’d ‘gained a little weight’
and he FORCED her to play the harp for him THE DAY SHE GOT HOME and then told the press that ‘she struggled a little bit’
So sorry your angel couldn’t be perfectly returned to you you smarmy creep.
Ok 15 year olds aren’t realy little girls, but they also aren’t grown ups. They might try hard to be grown ups. They might have babies and get married, but they aren’t realy physicaly, emotionaly ready for those choices. They don’t see danger as aplicable to them and they are not realy able to see long term consiquences. 15 year olds who get pregnant are far more likely to have complications in pregnancy due to the pelvis being too small than someone even a couple years older.
The dad might be acting strange to our eyes, but I am damned if I know what the right reactions for this situation would be. I think he is trying to pretend it has all gone back to normal.
jarbabyj
That’s a bit unfair. Everyone wanted to know her condition. I remember him (and others) state that she seemed in great heallth and spirits, and even put on some weight. that would go to support his assertion that she didn’t appear deprived physically.
And what i heard about the harp was that the family begged her to play. If I was trying to help help someone back to a normal routine, I would support somethingllike that . The harp was reportedly her passion.
I do find it odd that it was so quick, but I wasn’t there and don’t know the circumstances.
On another note…
Seems like Manny may have been looking for a Harem.
http://foxnews.com/story/0,2933,81115,00.html
"Seven weeks after Elizabeth Smart disappeared, the man accused of abducting her might have tried to kidnap her 18-year-old cousin, investigators said Friday.
"
My chauvanistic side softened a bit for him when I read this.
“Mitchell had produced a 27-page manifesto…One passage suggests polygamy was taken away from the people as punishment and that a just God would restore the “blessing” of polygamy to those who truly followed Jesus.”
I’M JUST KIDDING!!
Saen,
if they had to beg her to play the harp it leads me to believe that she didn’t want to play. Perhaps she wanted a few hours OFF CAMERA or a NAP or A HOT BATH or something. And then her dad criticizes her level of play and in a press conference MAKES FUN of her saying "she looked at me and said “what do you want dad, it’s been nine months”
NINE MONTHS DAD…THINK ABOUT WHY HER HARP PLAYING MAY HAVE FALLEN BY THE WAYSIDE.
Her dad is creepy, IMHO.
Maybe she’s a good actor, I don’t know. But she doesn’t look like she’s been kidnapped and abused in any way for nine months. She looks healthy and happy, like she’s been away for the summer. In Europe, or at the coast, or something.
Look at the pictures. Cover up the others in the photos, and look at just her face. She seems totally calm and sure of herself, and not at all troubled.
I’m an optimist, I guess. I hope she wasn’t harmed in any way. I hope she had fun.
Truly amazing to me is that so many people have griped about the police considering Ricci as a suspect but now that Smart’s daughter is back with him, folks don’t seem to have any problem at all with accusing Smart of some sort of complicity.
Very odd indeed.
I just read that ES and the other 2 people who were arrested “lived for “a couple of weeks” at the house of Daniel Trotta, a former Wild Oats employee, Johnson said. Johnson received a ride home from Trotta once when Mitchell, Barzee and Elizabeth were in the car.”
and also at Wild Oats (a health food store) "Elizabeth Smart was a regular visitor to a Salt Lake City supermarket after she was kidnapped and would often spend hours hanging out there, a store employee told CNN Thursday. "
I know brain washing can be very powerful, and I can only assume Emmanuel had her powerfully under his spell.
But I read an amazing true book once about a young woman who was kidnapped, tortured and kept in a box under the bed for almost 7 years (it’s an amazing story - Perfect Victim. This sadistic man had the woman so brainwashed that he eventually let her out regularly, she even spent a weekend with her family and got a part time job. Then she’d go back at night to this horrible man who locked her in a box under the bed.
It’s possible to convince people of unbelievable things.
I’m going to get eaten alive for this.
You must remember that the family is LDS (Mormon). I can only speak from my experience growing up Mormon. We were taught to show a stoic face to the outside world. You kept your troubles to yourselves around the general public. Things are different when you’re with your own community, you’re LDS friends and family. There you can be open and more free. Also this is a sheltered **girl ** from a LDS family. The LDS religion is a very patriarchal religion. She is used to being told the right way to behave. I see the behaviour the Smart’s are displaying as normal for them.
Actually, Tinkertoy, I appreciate your POV.
I’ve kept the whole Elizabeth Smart affair at something like arm’s length, as I described in the Pit recently, so neither was I traumatized by the kidnapping nor am I ecstatic at her rescue.
That being said, the story does seem tailor-made for a horrific backlash. For whatever reason, this kind of event causes people to get emotionally involved beyond any rational explanation, so folks are going to feel “violated” if it turns out something odd has been going on. Witness the gratuitous Mormon-bashing in this very thread, for instance; it seems like people’s anger at the possibility of having been deceived is serving as an excuse for them to give vent to vaguely-related long-held gripes.
A handful of Board members live in Salt Lake City and were/are directly involved with the family or the search or other aspects of the incident. They can freak out. Everybody else, for the sake of our collective sanity, please just chill for a while.
Tinkertoy, I can see you might well have been taught that way. But that is only your experience, as you said. My own, growing up Mormon as well, was quite different.
I’m looking for some freaking out, Cervaise. I don’t see any.
genie! Could you e-mail me? (On a completely un-related matter)
Well, it’s not so much freaking out, as taking unsupported potshots at people you know nothing about who have already been through enough.
I mean, after all, these people set this all up to get on TV, right? They should know exactly how to act to please the public. Because to the public, this is just another reality TV show.
genie Perhaps it’s because I came from a place that only had two churches, so it was very much “us or them”.
Well, I meant, hypothetically, if this case takes some completely perverse and unpredictable turn, in which case I predict an ear-splitting, but IMHO pointless, national meltdown. Sorry that wasn’t clear.
I haven’t followed every appearance of the dad on TV so maybe he’s showing creepiness that I’m not picking up. But so far, I am not being convinced that he’s being outrageously creepy.
He’s been through a lot too. A whole helluva lot. Not like what Elizabeth has been through, but a lot. Some men, and I think particularly this man, tries to be “stoic” and tries to hold it together all the time, but there’s only so much of that any human being can do.
For instance, my dad was kinda “stoic” kind of guy as well at times, but under stress he sometimes did and said weird things, borne out of nervousness. I’m sure anyone who saw him during one of these times got an inaccurate impression of him. I remember when my mom got hit by a car—he kind of fell apart. He suprised me a little. (My mom was OK, BTW.)
I am willing to give Mr. Smart a little slack here. He and his whole family have been through a lot. And no doubt a lot of men (not just LDS men) feel like they’ve always got to be the “strong one”, while the “womenfolk” can collapse once in a while. It’s gotta be hard for him. Especially when the whole damned country is scrutinizing him and passing judgment on when his behavior. Deciding whether or not it “passes muster”—without allowing much leeway for the stress he’s under, and how that stress may manifest itself in him.
As for Elizabeth—brainwashed after the abduction, brainwashed before the abduction and lured away—doesn’t matter to me, the result is the same. This Mitchell guy is a horrible evil man and Elizabeth was one of his victims. And, I might add, one 15 year old might be far more “younger” than another 15 year old. For instance, at age 15 I was far more sheltered and naive than many other girls my age. But I am sure I was still less sheltered than other girls. You can’t know just by her age how vulnerable and naive Elizabeth is, or is not. You just don’t know.
Hi. I live in a community in Arizona, primarily Mormon (LDS). I have many acquaintences who are LDS, as a result. I have inquired about their religion, and have found more often, than not, that there are “sacred rituals”, and “sacred (you fill in the blank)” that even the most devout Mormon follower knows nothing about (because they have not yet achieved the “enlightenment” to know of this ritual". Is it not possible that Emmanuel told Elizabeth that he was instrumental in some capacity in her “ritual experience”? She comes from a devout family. Maybe she was told she was leaving with him to partake in a “spiritual initiation” - and from there she was putty in his hands. She may have felt she was doing the “right thing” for her family and church if he held the “key words” to entice her. Just a thought.
mmmmm… yeah, they are - they are the epitome there of. sorry.
Let’s face it. All fourteen year old girls want to be abducted from their bedrooms at knife point. All of them want to spend nine months away from family, friends, the harp, church – everything that would give them security. All of them want to wear wigs and veils and marry a relgious fanatic. Some sexy guy, eh?
And, of course, the police never would suspect a parent. Why that would be the last thing that police would think of! :rolleyes:
Why are any of you expecting either the father or the girl to behave in rational ways under the circumstances? The father was nervous and excited and high to find that his daughter was alive!!! After a trauma is over is often when a person goes a little beserk. Why would you judge this man so harshly and be so suspicious when he is in a state of shock??
And as for the girl’s behavior, most of you don’t know what you will do when your life is threatened. I know that adults can be fairly easily brainwashed and non-reacting automotons in a few days. What should you expect of a 14-15 year old to do with nine months of brain bashing/washing?
I remember reading the true story of a young woman who was kidnapped at about that age and held as a sex slave, tortured and kept in a box in the basement for three years. After a while, she was allowed upstairs to clean. She began meeting people who were invited to the house and yet never said a word about her captivity. She was even allowed to leave the house on her own to go to a neighbors. But it took her a long time before she asked for help.
Geez Louise! Cut them some slack!:smack:
I’m going to go lie down now and pretend this thread didn’t happen.