Whoops! I forgot to name the article.
It’s “Smart Family Pleased with Charges.”
There is the issue that the nutjob wants to be his own lawyer, which would mean that he could question Elizabeth in court. Imagine that exchange WRT the sex charges. Not a pretty thought.
On preview, I note that the link Monty provided does include aggravated sexual assault on the list of charges. I hope they can work it out so Mitchell doesn’t get the chance to question Elizabeth.
I don’t think the sate need’s the family’s permission to pursue those charges and i hope they do it anyway. As for Elizabeth having to testify, well it nmay be moot. The satae may be able to gather enough evidence without her testimony. Mitchell’s own statements may be enough to convict him on the rape charges. They may also ending cutting some sort of deal if he cops to the rape charges. I hope like hell he gets prosecuted for it. I don’t understand these parents at all. This Mitchell guy has got to burn for what he did. i don’t care what the parents say.
PS. I’m also really tired of the anti-Mormon crap. I doubt that people would be engaging in that kind of speculation if she was a Catholic or a Baptist.
Mr. Smart’s status in the church and in the community has not and will not be negatively affected by what’s happened to her? She can still take full part in church stuff. and get married and all, as if this had never happened?
I tried to answer these questions myself, using the LDS site, but it uses language I’m not accustomed to.
From whom? You? Why? What is your vested interest in the case? Did you know her? Or the suspect? Or her family? Do you live in Salt Lake City?
Or are you just nosy?
The amount of rampant speculation here and in the media generally is appalling to me. As I’ve said in other threads, I watch this case from a distance. It has no impact on my life, at all. I don’t believe in psychic energy or anything like that, but I still feel that any unwarranted fantasies on my part — and that’s what they are, folks, fantasies — about this sad incident are an unwanted intrusion into the lives of total strangers.
I said this back on the first page. Chill out, unless you’re involved.
Sheesh.
I was very much saddened to hear that Ms. Smart was probably sexually molested. I had hoped that at least that one thing hadn’t happened to her. Damn.
It’s good that she’s alive and no longer under his control. I wish that more exploited children could be so lucky. Whatever the belief system of the parents.
What crime did Mr. Smart commit? What sin? I will thank you, as I’m sure Mr. Smart and his family would also, to try to remember that one is only liable for one’s own transgressions[sup]1[/sup].
Yes. What part of “victims of rape […] are without sin” is unclear to you?
Yes. What part of “Those who were raped or abused sexually are not guilty of breaking the law of chastity” is unclear to you?
I look at those quotes and everything else on that site and I see it using the English language.
Geez Monty, lighten up on mangeorge. It was an honest question, and Mormons do use a slightly different theological language than more mainstream Christians, which can lead to a lot of confusion between the two.
Monty, thanks for the correction. My bad for “reporting” prematurely regarding the Smarts’ desire to drop the charges. That is the exact manner with which it was reported on the O’Reilly factor CLIP…but when it came to the actual story and interview, I got a totally different/conflicting view from the family spokesperson. So much for the ‘no spin zone’ (tongue in cheek)
I think the fact that Elizabeth’s Bishop made a special trip to see her, to comfort her and to reassure her that she had not committed any sins should lay this issue to rest.
genie & mangeorge: Sorry. I didn’t realize I was being harsh. Especially since I wasn’t being harsh.
Yes, as with any other religion, we use a particular slant on the words that other people may not be aware of; however, I don’t think that would enter into this particular discussion.
DEVA: No problem.
Diogenes: That’s one of the very many things I love about my church–stuff like that bishop just did.
“Mr. Smart’s status in the church…” was supposed to read “Ms. Smart’s status…”. But that’s ok, it really doesn’t make any difference. None of your smart-assed quips answer my basic question anyway. I’ll just assume that she’ll not be held in any way responsible for what happened.
They weren’t smart-ass quips. I posted something, which just so happens to be in pretty plain English, and you made that posting of yours. I responded to it with a simple question to each of yours.
So, what exactly is it in those quotes did you not understand?
And I will thank you to keep your name-calling in the Pit where it belongs.
No, mangeorge, she certainly will not.
If you live in Berkeley (yay!), you can stop by the LDS Institute on LeConte (big blue house) any weekday and there will be several people to answer any questions you might have. They are a good crowd (my little brother among them), though I don’t know the director any more; the former director is sadly missed. Family Sunday services are at the church building across from Peet’s on Walnut. Just so you know :).
I was asked by Monty to bring the information that I posted in the Pit over to this thread.
I am disgusted by the eroneous speculation that is still going on in this thread as well as the slams again the LDS Church.
For those who question why she didn’t escape when she was only a few miles away from home and for those who have made outrageous and shameful claims that she my have been a runaway or willing captive, I give you this latest article:
http://tv.ksl.com/index.php?sid=14921&nid=5
"Prosecutors say that when they reached the campsite, Barzee tried to remove Elizabeth’s pajamas. When the girl resisted, Barzee threatened to have Mitchell forcibly do it.
Elizabeth then complied and Mitchell attempted to sexually assault her, with Barzee’s help. At some point, she was restrained with a cable around her foot that was tethered to a tree, Yocom said.
From that night until Oct. 8, the couple held Elizabeth against her will at the mountain campsite with little or no shelter, plumbing, water or food, prosecutors said."
“She was under the threat of death,” Yocom said.
“Elizabeth was taken against her will at knifepoint, she’s a minor, and whatever rationale Mitchell used to believe that she was his wife and loved him is grossly mistaken,” Thomas said. “The definition of love is not degradation, humiliation, or robbing someone’s life of control and respect.”
Does anyone still have any doubts as to her willingness to participate? To escape? Is anyone still wondering how two adults could alter a childs mind?
Shame on some of you.
Thank you, Diane.
That poor kid. I hope she gets the proper counselling for this, and i hope she’s not messed up for life.
AFAIAC, what happened to her is entirely the fault of her abductors and no one else. Not her, not her family and certainly not her church.
Thanks Diane. Information is priceless.
Look, the family’s faith is of no consequence and I believe the topic should be let go. The family has been investigated to no avail. Should the Smart family be handling their reunion differently? Revisit that question after you’ve lived their experience (contrite, I know). There are things that seem quirky to me…but it’s not my job (thank God) to concern myself with their quirks. I’m a little surprised that this current society has become SO disillusioned (or is it synthasized?) that they are so quick to believe that EVERY missing teenager WILLINGLY runs off with crazy people to live in the woods and have sex.
None of us can make a judgement based on a few pictures and fatherly press conferences. It seems that many are confused/upset/indifferent because what we THINK or IMAGINE should be happening is not. Well, SURPRISE: imagination often does not meet and embrace reality.
DEVA:
Someone known to me personally a few years ago went through something worse than this. His daughter was kidnapped, possibly raped, and murdered. Nobody can prove she was raped because the killers abandoned her body in the woods not very far from her home at what used to be Fort Ord, and the body decomposed to just the skeleton and some hair.
I joined in a number of the searches for her in the area. The vast majority of the searches happened in the time after her body was abandoned. The thing is, although this was also pretty close to being “in her backyard,” it’s still a forest, and one with some pretty tough wild animals there. The body was missed by those who searched in that forest.
The family thanked the entire Monterey Peninsula community for their efforts to help them find their daughter alive, although that obviously wasn’t the result. One way they thanked that community was to have a memorial service for her at the chapel on Fort Ord. There were so many people who showed for that, the family held another memorial in Monterey at the Convention Center. Finally, they had a private funeral (without the body because the authorities will use it as evidence if they ever catch the killers).
My point is that none of this was mugging for the camera or grandstanding. It was the only way they knew to thank the community for helping them when they were in very much distress.
THAT’S how I view what the Smart family has been doing with these news conferences. They are thanking the people who helped and supported them through this.
During my freshman year at BYU (1975-76) I experienced date-rape. The “official” position of the church at that time was “it was better to have died defending yourself”.
YES, thank goodness, the Church has changed it’s position since then!
When Rico came home from work tonight and told me he thought he might have made a mistake but wasn’t sure and explained to me what he said in this thread and the repercussion as a result, it brought lots of emotions flooding back to me.
I was there…I lived through that “official” position and took my punishment from my Branch President like a good little 18 yr old because that’s what I’d been taught to do.
Rico’s error was finding a site that had outdated or intentionally printed the original printing of Spencer Kimball’s book. Since he hasn’t attended church services in many years, and having grown up being taught that, when he saw it, he assumed that was still the Church’s position.
I have boxed his ears. Instructed him to talk to me first the next time he wants to do something like this again and to make sure he’s using the official Church webpage as his source for current church doctrine.
Ya’ll are spending way to much time perseverating on his error. Get on with what the OP is about or maybe ya’ll need to put the mouse down…step back and get away from the monitor for just a little while and try to look at this whole situation from all the sides as best you can. Or at the very least visit MPSIMS or Cafe Society for a bit.
I’m not a debator. I don’t enjoy it. I don’t even get any kind of satisfaction out of reading other people debating. It’s just my nature. But for some reason, after talking with my husband and understanding where he had made a mistake and hearing how he was being taken to the mat for it, my instincts to defend my loved one came to life.
He made a mistake. He knows that now. He knows how he made the mistake and how to keep from repeating the same mistake again. So, please let it go. I’ve made him feel bad enough. You don’t need to jump on him too.
Please remain seated until the ride comes to a complete stop. Then please exit to the right and return to the OP…
Carry on.