I was wondering (don’t know why) if the Pentagon’s security cameras, or any other video sources (like security, traffic and weather cameras perched on the top of buildings in the DC area) captured flight 77 and its crash into the building.
If not, why not? Surely at the minimum, the Pentagon has security cameras, right?
If so, has it been released and I just missed it?
If it exists and hasn’t been released, what’s the reason? I would imagine it was horrific, but in the wake of seeing what happened to the twin towers in NYC, I think the country was pretty numb to seeing planes fly into buildings.
Is there any evidence on way or the other that these images exist at all?
I wasn’t sure where to post this, but I figured here was the best place in case it turns into a debate. Mods please move as necessary.
I would think that in a building of the strategic importance of the Pentagon, there would be surveillance cameras aimed outwards from the exterior of the building, showing the grounds surrounding it.
There was a security camera and the footage does exist. You can’t really see anything becuase the plane is going so fast. Basically all you see is the explosion.
I’m guessing here, but I’d say the frame rate for security cameras is pretty low…and the plane was moving pretty damn fast. All you’d see is a blurr of motion if anything. I do actually believe that some footage exists…IIRC I’ve seen pictures of the final impact on some TV show or another documenting the Pentagon strikes.
I do have the theory that conspiracy proponents refuse to deal with the footage since it actually explains why there was no clean shape of the plane on the wall just after the impact: the plane was in contact with the ground just before hitting the wall. It was disintegrating, but all the metal and gas tanks continued their deadly progress.
Now there are some conspiracy sites that do deal with the footage, but only to say that that was not a plane. They still deserve a :rolleyes:. A missile strike would not behave as it appears in the images.
If you Ignore the other conspiracies, this conspiracy website does a good job debunking the missile theories:
No missile theory here. I just wondered. It seems that some of you have seen something. I missed any footage of the crash, but perhaps if it is as has been described here, the news orgs. didn’t find it compelling enough to show. After all, they had the NYC footage that was pretty vivid.
I have heard about the missile theory, but I don’t understand how it has any legs. From what I’ve read, Rumsfeld(?) said a “missile” hit the Pentagon, which is how it started. That’s something I’ve read but never heard. Even if he said that, perhaps it was a figure of speech. I don’t know. I just don’t see how all the eyewitness reports of a plane hitting the Pentagon could be dismissed by people who want to believe the missile theory.
Perhaps the Pentagon has some of those phony security cameras. Who would believe that they would use $5.00 plastic cameras up there instead of real ones? I think I’m on to something here!
GIGO
Thanks for the links. I tried the cnn video link, but the movie file doesn’t seem to be there any more. In any case, the picture itself is pretty powerful. There definitely seems to be a large fireball, indicating a fuel explosion. I agree that a missile strike wouldn’t look like that, although I’m not exactly up on missile technology. Do we have a missile that delivers a payload full of airplane fuel?
The Pentagon crash was actually captured by several cameras, but the footage was seized by government agents and has not been released. I know of at least one hotel across the interstate in Crystal City whose security camera caught the crash, but the footage was seized within hours and has never been released. Apparently, a gas station on the grounds of the pentagon also had a camera that captured the crash, and that footage has not been released.
I don’t get tinfoil hatty about too many things, but the complete lack of any footage of the pentagon crash other than those five blurry, editedframes that were released has always rubbed me the wrong way and raised a red flag - though I have absolutel no idea what could be being covered up.
The thought just occurred to me that what they are hiding may have been a defensive weapon that even though it was not successful this time, the Pentagon would not like anyone to see what that defense was.
Or what it happen was that the videos did not work.
Yeah, that’s one mini-theory that I’ve always wondered about. I mean, it’s probably something mundane like roof-mounted missile launchers or something, but it’s still fascinating that there’s some “secret defenses” at the Pentagon.
Well, the story is that the hotel employees were already replaying and watching their video before it was confiscated, so <shrug>.
This is an interesting nugget. I’ll take a look at the links, but is there any prevailing theories about what the Pentagon would be hiding? Defensive measures at the Pentagon wouldn’t surprise me… I’d kind of expect something, although what kind of defense I don’t know. Seems to me that if they had something like defensive Patriot missiles to shoot something out of the sky, that would be dangerous.
Obviously, I haven’t read the articles yet, but is there any consensus from these confiscated videos of what was on them by the hotel employees, etc. who allegedly saw them? If it’s just a different video view of the plane hitting the Pentagon, why confiscate them and not make them public?
Another dumb question is, if there were these other video sources, how did the government know where to go to confiscate them? No one at the hotel, or anywhere else a video might have existed called a TV station before calling the FBI? That seems a bit strange to me.
I really didn’t start this looking for a conspiracy. I’ll search the web and see what I can find. If anyone else knows anything, please post your thoughts. I am fascinated that the possibility exists that hotel employees watched a video and the government confiscated it. For what purpose would they be held under wrap? This has a strange ring to it… reminds me of the stories of Secret Service agents running through the crowd at Dallas confiscating film from cameras and movie projectors. How they missed Zapruder I’ll never know.
I did think about it. First, I thought the Pentagon would have surveillance cameras of the grounds and the surrounding area. Second, I was thinking that hotels, or other businesses in the areas may have security cameras (or traffic/weather cameras) perched on top of buildings.
I’m not saying there was some camera pointed to the sky. I was thinking of a stationary camera that would have caught the crash in the background of their normal shot. I don’t think it’s unreasonable to assume that a camera pointed in the direction of the Pentagon (and not necessarily monitoring the Pentagon) would have possibly picked something up. In my area, there is a local weather station that has a camera stationed on top of a high building in town. You can see quite a bit in the background. If a plane came down within range of the camera, I’m guessing you could see something. Whether or not it would be viewable is certainly up for debate. As people have mentioned, the plane would be moving so fast, who knows what would actually appear on video?
From the links provided in this thread, I’m starting to wonder. Perhaps the web pages are set up by a bunch of nutjobs, and everything is bogus, but it looks pretty interesting to me. And many of the linked sources are legitimate as far as I can tell.
The U.S. government is capable of a lot of things, but I really doubt they’re covering anything up. I can think of any number of reasons they’d seize the tapes. As for why they haven’t given them back, has there been any request to do so from the owners of the tapes (and not from various conspiracy theorists)? Other than requests from the owners, I can’t think of a reason for the government to release them, really. We know what happened, there’s ample evidence, so there’s no real story to chase (other than the one the conspiracy theorists are wanting). And perhaps the owners of these tapes don’t want them back - I don’t think I’d want a tape back that depicts so many people’s deaths. I’d be perfectly content to let the goverment have it and do what they will with it.
There is no doubt that the plane slammed into the Pentagon or struck the ground and the fragments slid into it. The impact is said to have been caught on some store or gas station’s security camera as part of the incidental background to the camera. As far as I’ve heard these have been seized. There may be no reason for it other than the obsessive-compulsive security fetish that the government has.
I don’t know if there have been any requests or not. But I’ll tell you this… I’d wager a news organization or two would pay good money to have those pictures. Before you tell me that people wouldn’t sell these things to the highest bidder, Zapruder did it when Kennedy was shot. Life Magazine and CBS were bidding.
Just because you can’t think of a reason doesn’t mean there *isn’t * a reason. On the other hand, it doesn’t mean that there *is * a reason, either. One of the things that drives me crazy on this board is it seems **questioning the official version ** = **conspiracy theorist ** = nut job. I guess whatever side of the fence you sit on either makes you a conspiracy nut or a stable individual.
I’d like to think I fall into the latter category, because I can’t think of a reason why the government would keep these videos under wraps. But I sure would like to know what (if any) the big secret is.
As for the 4th plane that crashed in PA, I stumbled on to this site onflight 93. If you are interested, it makes for some interesting reading. I don’t know if the guy has any axe to grind. He seems to have gathered a bunch of stories/interviews that were printed right after it happened, and just puts it out there for consumption. Quite different than the official version.
Conspiracy? Hell, I don’t know. But the government isn’t above spinning a story or two (see Gulf of Tonkin). I think asking questions is a good thing.
One of the things that drives me crazy on this board is it seems **questioning the official version ** = **conspiracy theorist ** = nut job. I guess whatever side of the fence you sit on either makes you a conspiracy nut or a stable individual.