This is a valid point. My assumption based on the language of the first post (“newly sober” vs. “trying to quit”) is a recovery situation, but that is just an assumtion.
What if I’m NOT a “Normal” drinker? What if I’m an alcoholic witnout any intention to quit?
Does my physical addiction allow me to bring booze to the campsite in the presence of a recent teetotaler, without question?
There are many social situations where alcohol is part of it. They are all innocuous and normal and ANY recovering alcoholic has to make choices on attending and dealing with these situations. Having a beer on a camping trip is no different then a person having wine with dinner or a glass of champagne at a wedding. All normal everyday occurances and will be part of this persons life for the rest of their life.
Weddings
Birthdays
Dinner Parties
Camping trips
Celebration parties at work
Should the young bride and groom NOT have champagne because of this guy? I can assure you in any given crowd of 200-300 people there will be varying degrees of recovering alcoholics. Which is more reasonable–to not have any alcohol there or to expect adults to act like adults?
Perhaps the wiser choice is to let the recovering person find his/her own way. They can attend these things when they are strong enough.
When my wife quit smoking she didn’t put herself in any social situations where he would be tempted for six months. She didn’t inconvenience her friends over it and ask that they not smoke. She waited until she was strong enough to attend and hasn’t ever had an issue. In fact in due time most of her friends quit too.
Which she has done, and he (or his wife) said “no big” so friend can bring alcohol. He (or his wife) is taking responsibility for his not drinking (which is WAY COOL and a good sign).
Frankly the more interesting question however is why is Friend so insistent on bringing booze? Do you have a societal obligation not to drink if a friend is in recovery and asks you not to? What should the default assumption be? Why do some people feel a camping trip (which is a family trip, kids will be present) is somehow incomplete without alcohol (and apparently grass as well - frankly, we think a family vacation isn’t a family vacation until we all shoot up some smack, but we are messed up).
We started with the default assumption with my sister that we should all live our lives the way we always had, her alcohol consumption was her issue - and I shouldn’t HAVE to pass on a glass of wine because SHE couldn’t handle hers. I think we were wrong…its a small sacrifice to support someone you care about. I don’t HAVE to pass on the glass of wine, but it is the nice thing to do. Yeah, it isn’t our fault if she chooses to drink - even if we’ve been modeling the drinking. At the same time, it doesn’t cost us anything but a little pleasure to not drink around her, and its nicer to let her know that WE can enjoy things without a glass of wine, she can too.
I would have to think about it, but am not sure what that has to do with your bad analogy.
Ah, but you see, for her this was not a trivial thing. Drinking was a real problem for her, and she needed to avoid temptation. Now, we’d occasionally go to events where alcohol was served, and she’d be OK. And a few times we went out and I’d have one drink.
But I normally chose not to drink around her out of respect. That was my choice, not hers. She asked, but didn’t demand. She wasn’t a controlling bitch like that.
She was a contolling bitch about other things, but not about that. She asked me to respect her sobriety, and her love was worth enough to me to comply.
And that’s where our relationship would end.
Yeah because we all know the next step up from grass is mixing household cleaning agents into a lovely hallucinogen that we all can enjoy. :rolleyes:
Good God.
Your sole point for calling my analogy bad hovers around “physical addiction,” which in ANY context portrayed here is utterly meaningless.
Well, these questions get to those details that are so tough to flesh out in a message board. Different people drink different amounts in different situations. And I agree, good friends and family generally should agree to inconvenience themselves to help one another. So a lot has to do with this particular group’s dynamics and history.
One of my buddies is having a big rib cookout down by the lake this weekend for like the 15th year in a row. Every year they have had a keg, and every year folks who chose to smoke pot did so (tho generally discretely as more and more folks began bringing kids.) No reason for me to expect these folks to change their practices, simply because I changed my habits.
Similarly, I know another group who goes on a yearly camping/rafting trip. As I understand it, they get pretty ripped. If one member chooses to stop indulging, I see his best options are pretty much to deal with it or not go.
Re: the “societal obligation” and default assumption, I think the obligation is personal between the individuals or among the small group/society. And I generally feel the greater obligation lies with the individual who made the change such that he is acting differnetly than the group historically has. If I decide to become vegetarian or Jewish, it would take a lot of nerve for me to show up at this weekend’s ribfest and start complaining that they didn’t have anything I could eat.
[sarcasm]
Wrong! They must offer kosher meals at once! If they don’t, why would you hang out with a group of such assholes!?
[/sarcasm]
No. My point is that comparinNo. My point is that comparing active addiction to nicotine is not the same as non-addiction to alcohol. That when you did so, you were setting up a bad analogy. Why is that hard to grasp? g active addiction to
Really? You would break up with a beautiful, loving, wonderful woman because you need to drink around her? I guess we have different priorities then. I was more than happy to stay sober with her. She was intoxicating enough. If I felt the desire to drink, I could always do that with my buds on nights when I didn’t see her.
No, I’d break up with her because she would consider my having a beer as a big deal. Like I said, that’s a sneak peak to a life full of other things I consider trivial to be big deals. There are plenty of great women out there who wouldn’t feel uncomfortable if their mate has a beer or glass of wine.
See, my WIFE (read: there aren’t nights when I don’t see her – if I go out with friends, we do so as a couple and I’m perfectly fine with that – I <gasp> actually enjoy her company) considers other things to be more important than if I had a beer. She doesn’t think one way or the other about it.
Of course not. But I think it largely depends on the size of the group, as well as what traditions are involved. I’d be much more likely to curtail my activities in a small group than in a large one.
Ah, but see, while she considered my drinking a big deal, I considered my sobriety not to be a big deal. Being with her was a much bigger priority for me, and I was totally fine making the compromise.
I’m not sure where you’re going with this. Are you bragging that you’re married and I’m not? Are you saying that I didn’t enjoy my GF’s company? Are you proposing that we get into a pissing match about who has the better relationship?
Because I’m not going to go there with you.
Probably because she isn’t an alcoholic. If she were, it might (or might not) be a bigger deal to her, but your position seems to be that your right to drink trumps any preference she might have, regardless of her reasons for having a preference.
It is your right to put your own needs first – it is my right to think your priorities are a little sad.
Whoa. No, that’s not what I was implying at all.
OK, then why did you post that? Because that’s most definitley the vibe you gave.
Why did you all caps “wife”? Why did you gasp? And please explain your use of the word “actually.”
I think you are reading more into this then is intended. I believe what he is saying is that he doesn’t go out with his buddies by himself. If he goes out his wife goes out with him. So if he was going to drink he does it while she is with him and thus having a partner who drinks is an important element in his choice of partner–a very reasonable stance. I believe this was in response to your comment about in your situation you would go drinking with your buddies.
But I am sure he will be back to clarify his position soon enough 