I think, Alex, that you may have a confusion of terms. It seems to me that you have a peculiar notion of what “fun” means. But let me see if I’ve synthesized your points adequately.
1-2: Positive social interactions are self-reinforcing for sane people.
3: “Fun” is self-balancing. Excessive fun is exhausting, too little is demoralizing.
4: Frankly, you lost me. You’ve gone back to your jargon. I think you’re trying to argue that some people are vapid?
What does this have to do with society being unjust?
I agree with the first three points, if I’ve understood them correctly–and I’m not sure I have. I don’t see what it has to do with anything, though. What it feels like, however, is a failure to communicate.
You’re full of ideas, brimming and excited and you want to share your thoughts with us, but it all comes out in a jumble. It needs some organization. I’m inviting you to share it, but with some coherency. Try it with a standard five-paragraph model:
**Introduction: ** What are you trying to argue? “Society is unjust”? In one paragraph–five sentences–tell me why it’s unjust. Body: Now, three paragraphs: Why is it unjust? Pick your strongest three points. Focus on only one point per paragraph. In each paragraph, spend five sentences explaining that point. Conclusion: Society is unjust. Drive your point home. Summarize your middle three paragraphs in this paragraph. If it feels like you’re repeating yourself, well, you are.
Don’t make up any special terms (like “sad jokers”). Just use plain English. Keep it shorter and punchy. The mark of a smart person is how well they can explain anything to anybody, because they can demonstrate how clearly they understand the material.
I will break down my comment into three parts:
(a) I don’t think you can have [any number of] [any kind of] animals together and get a just society.
(b) If these animals were endowed with enough intelligence to develop or have access to the concept of justice, some of them might dream of achieving it.
(c) There is no (c).
It’s weird that you said that because I went to the doctor and guess what he told me - guess what he told me? He said “Boy, you better try to have fun no matter what you do.” Personally I think he’s a fool, but rest assured I am not comparing him to you.
[QUOTE]
You’re full of ideas, brimming and excited and you want to share your thoughts with us, but it all comes out in a jumble. It needs some organization. I’m inviting you to share it, but with some coherency. Try it with a standard five-paragraph model:
ok let me try it this way
Introduction:
Society in this text, means people living together and interacting with one another.
Because people live and interact with one another, their behavior in the end, affects others.
People for each occasion, behave according to their judgement, and what feels good to them.
Because people in society live and interact together, they have to include in their judgement, the rest of society, to a degree of their choice, but… they still include it.
Other people in society don’t include the rest of the people in society in their decisions according to what is right for all, and when they successfully reach a position of responsibility, then society has problems, and history goes into a cycle.
There are three general stories, people fall into, when they behave in this latter manner.
Body:
Problems in trade
Trade in this text, means I do something for you, you do something for me.
Some people try to actually do something for the other when they trade, as being helpful to others makes them feel good in their life.
Others only focus on the position they will end up when they trade, or in in other words they think simply that their end justifies their means to get there.
Because the last ones are not interested in the “I do something for you” part of trade ,they make trade inefficient in society…because trade needs both “I do something for you, you do something for me” to work good.
Problems with the future
Future in this text, means what happens next.
Most people understand that what happens next, happens…well…next. Why?
They can pick a coin, choose a side and flip it, and they will see with repetition of this experiment that they don’t know what happens next (they can’t guess the side the coin ends up facing upwards right all the time).
Others differ from this opinion and end up believing that they know what will happen next, and that others have an obligation to follow them, so they think simply that their end justifies their means to get there.
And because what happens next, happens…next, they end up messing up, and in positions of responsibility the consequences multiply for the rest people in society.
Problems with power
Power in this text, means having others believe you have power, even though in the end you die.
Most people understand that they are just another human, and in the end try to cooperate with others. In other words they are not interested in being powerful, but they are trying to be useful to society.
Other people differ from this opinion, and end up believing they are powerful, and that others should do as they say, or in in other words they think simply that their end justifies their means to get there.
When something happens, and people in society stop believing that powerful people are powerful, then powerful people do anything which needs to be done for them to stay in power, regardless of the consequences to society.
Conclusion:
Because in the end it is the judgement and good will of people that makes society work, the ones who misbehave either should be corrected, or in end history goes into a cycle with consequences for all society.
To find the ones who pose as something else than human, the humans who specialize in making humans, meaning women, should decide.
Why? Because in the rest of nature, it is the females that decide who is worthy and who is not worthy in the end, to continue the species.
Males seem to act around and try to behave in a way that females find good in the end…or bad things happen and the story repeats itself, until it plays in the right manner.
After they are pointed out by women for each occasion, then their families, who know them and understand them best, should deal with them.
If their families are unwilling to do so, then anyone in society is free to deal with them and make sure they comply.
In the latter sentence, society could try to adopt laws to try to protect these families, but from who really would those laws protect them and from what?
Anyone can simply ignore them, as this family did in the past.
Trade, by definition, is the exchange of goods and services that should be beneficial to both parties. It’s not clear what you mean by some parties focusing on what they get out of the deal - that’s the primary focus of anyone involved in trade or purchase. If I buy a gallon of milk at the store, I’m exchanging money that I earned for a product. I’m doing something for the store (paying them $3.99) and they are doing something for me (supplying me a gallon of milk). How would I do something else for the store?
I think you need to give some specific examples of what these “bad” trades look like and why you think one or both parties are obligated to no seek the best deal for themselves.
Regarding what family is referring to:
The ones who misbehave have three types of families they can belong in.
**1. Their biological family or … just their family. **
This is the obvious family they belong into, they didn’t choose it.
**2. Their work/business family, meaning the company or organisation they belong into **
This is a group they belong into, part because of necessity, part because they chose to to do so. 3. Their “kindred spirits” family, meaning a group of people with a certain ideology, which they openly support.
This is an ideology they belong into and have sympathy for other people with a similar ideology. This they chose themselves.
or in short the word “family”, casts a wide net.
Regarding the question, let me rephrase the argument:
** People who misbehave belong, as most people, in at least three families as mentioned above.**
a person has a biological family, a job and colleagues , and finally some views he/she openly believes together with the rest people who have similar views. These families should deal with the people who misbehave, or else completely unknown people may appear and do to those families what no one shouldn’t do, until they change their minds and actions.
One can think of ways that these families could protect themselves rather than reforming their members who misbehave, but in the end, laws are written down in society, and everyone is expected to follow them.
These families also have quite some influence in writing down laws (families of wealth, reputation and power), but in the end it is actions of the rest people in society which is what happens.
For example, parts of a city may have open drug use and crime, in other parts there is drug use and crime but not publicly, and finally some are clean.
They are all under the same law, but the effect of the law in each case is different, and one can experience it in real life. What I mean is that, laws are in effect where most people follow them, and few misbehave, where people don’t follow laws they are not in effect, and nature takes over.
This is the reason why a poor neighborhood with violence is a bad choice for one to live in, even if he/she isn’t poor, or violent. Nature has taken over law, and people do what they need to do to live their lives…and they do so in such neighborhoods.
If one comes to stab you on the street, your body does not allow you to try to remain as calm as you were before, because, this isn’t what you should at that time and occasion.
At the same time there are those who love pushing others, because “no one will tell them what to do”, and since the rest people are trying to behave, the rest people are being pushed to varying degrees depending on the time and occasion.
In the end, if you push someone enough, there is a point where one loses his/her patience and nature takes over. So the story goes, some Jokers like constantly pushing others regardless of how others feel, and in the end hurt other people
the people who are hurt…well…at a certain point may lose it and end up hurting others…and the epic saga continues.
Even though this spell of misery and hate propagates,society stabilizes in every day life to pretty peaceful if you do your job and don’t try to hurt anyone. Because most people don’t want to hurt others.
So, why don’t we close the epic saga, with an initial warning to the ones who misbehave, regardless of any position, gods, magic spells they have, and allow nature to do its work, where this is needed?
The question in the end remains, because this may look to me just…but I honestly don’t know…I am trying to get another’s persons view.
But if I understand it correctly, what can one tell to someone who says “No one will tell me what to do”, which fits some characters in life.
It seems to me that no one should tell them “What no one shouldn’t do”, and those who understood, understood, and those who say they don’t will, one way or the other…isn’t this what happens with people who push it too far in nature?
Regarding what family is referring to:
The ones who misbehave have three types of families they can belong in.
**1. Their biological family or … just their family. **
This is the obvious family they belong into, they didn’t choose it.
**2. Their work/business family, meaning the company or organisation they belong into **
This is a group they belong into, part because of necessity, part because they chose to to do so. 3. Their “kindred spirits” family, meaning a group of people with a certain ideology, which they openly support.
This is an ideology they belong into and have sympathy for other people with a similar ideology. This they chose themselves.
or in short the word “family”, casts a wide net.
Regarding the question, let me rephrase the argument:
** People who misbehave belong, as most people, in at least three families as mentioned above.**
a person has a biological family, a job and colleagues , and finally some views he/she openly believes together with the rest people who have similar views. These families should deal with the people who misbehave, or else completely unknown people may appear and do to those families what no one shouldn’t do, until they change their minds and actions.
One can think of ways that these families could protect themselves rather than reforming their members who misbehave, but in the end, laws are written down in society, and everyone is expected to follow them.
These families also have quite some influence in writing down laws (families of wealth, reputation and power), but in the end it is actions of the rest people in society on what happens.
For example, parts of a city may have open drug use and crime, in other parts there is drug use and crime but not publicly, and finally some are clean.
They are all under the same law, but the effect of the law in each case is different, and one can experience it in real life. What I mean is that, laws are in effect where most people follow them, and few misbehave, where people don’t follow laws they are not in effect, and nature takes over.
This is the reason why a poor neighborhood with violence is a bad choice for one to live in, even if he/she isn’t poor, or violent. Nature has taken over law, and people do what they need to do to live their lives…and so they do in such neighborhoods.
If one comes to stab you on the street, your body does not allow you to try to remain as calm as you were before, because, that isn’t what you should at that time and occasion.
At the same time there are those who love pushing others, because “no one will tell them what to do”, and since the rest people are trying to behave, the rest people are being pushed to varying degrees depending on the time and occasion.
In the end, if you push someone enough, there is a point where one loses his/her patience and nature takes over. So the story goes, some sad Jokers like constantly pushing others regardless of how others feel, and in the end hurt other people
People who are hurt by the sad jokers…well…at a certain point may lose it and end up hurting others…and the epic saga continues.
Even though this spell of misery and hate propagates,society stabilizes in every day life to pretty peaceful if you do your job and don’t try to hurt anyone. Because most people don’t want to hurt others.
So, why don’t we close the epic saga, with an initial warning to the sad jokers who misbehave, regardless of any position, gods, magic spells they have, and allow nature to do its work, where this is needed?
The question remains in the end, because I am looking for others people’s views.
It seems to me that to the sad joker who say “no one will tell me what to do”, no one should come back and tell them “what no one shouldn’t do”, so that they stop being sad, and keep hijacking society.