Maddie is a tease if she is letting guys think she is straight (if she sleeps with them not telling them she’s gay).
Before I get called out for slut shaming - I don’t think people would be ok with a gay guy going around and sleeping with women - and then being - “sorry I was tipsy - I’m gay!”
Of course if there is full disclosure - or it is only a one night stand type thing - then most guys wouldn’t care. I suspect she is leading some of these guys on, but can’t tell from the story.
The taking the bull by the horns comment sort of seems like a come on. But it really depends on the nuances. If she said it any then IMMEDIATELY went from the bedroom grabbed her purse with keys in hand - then I’d say no. If she had a lilting tone, sauntered past Dave and gave him some look - that’s a different story.
I think anyone who is truly lesbian and has sex with guys is doing it for the power - and there is no reason to believe she wouldn’t try it against Dave either.
But if people really believe her when she says she trusts Dave - AND - they don’t think she sees his desire - then ok. But I find that hard to believe.
I know one woman (and I know it isn’t the same thing) - who really gets off on having sex with men. The thing is - she is not attracted to men - usually. However - if she sees him with another woman - her brain starts churning and she starts plotting to get him into bed. I think it is like a video game to her. She usually wins - and she gets VAST pleasure out of this. She never really made any moves on me when I was single, but when I’ve had dates or she sees me with someone - she is pretty overt about it. You have any idea how difficult it was for me to say no to her (I had a GF I liked at the time) when she literally said “please, I really want to suck your cock”. I really wish I could have had this on video to show my ex gf, but I don’t think she liked me hanging around her anyway. She is bi - seems more attracted to women, but doesn’t get the thrill out of having sex with women. She likes to conquer the men. I try and explain that it really isn’t THAT difficult to find even married guys that will sleep with you when you say things like “please, I really want to suck your dick right now.” She is pretty self aware about it - I’ll see her start to get her sights on a guy and she will notice me noticing her - and she’ll say “yes - I know I am fucked up - I can’t help it”
Your situation is different, but just thought I’d mention mine to show women do do stuff like this sometimes.
Another point in favor of the woman is it was a church event. I think in general women should be able to feel a little less vulnerable to being hit on if they are going to a church event.
I’m far, far from an expert in female sexuality, so I could be totally off base here, but, my thought was, if she were totally uninterested in men, she wouldn’t be having sex with them even when drunk. My WAG is that she’s bisexual, and at least theoretically interested in men, but thinks that actual men are either jerks or wouldn’t want her (on more than a carnal level). And she’s wondering if Dave might be a counterexample to that theory, but she’s afraid that he actually falls into one of these two categories after all.
I have locked onto your position via repeater-scope and even as we speak the serverbots are loading pies of all sorts into the pastry cannon. I know wehad some unfortunate results last spring but I believe all the kinks are out of the PC and there is only a 48% chance that you will be killed or seriously injured.
I don’t quite buy this. Maddie sounds like an attractive woman; surely she knows that all guys want to sleep with her (or she could at least suspect that parading around in front of one in a towel will get his mind going there).
That’s the vibe I’m getting from Maddie, too. The girl is trouble.
I’ve known women who were that casual around me or other men - most often lesbians. What you describe above is pretty tepid, especially since Maddie has praised Dave for not hitting on her in the past. She may not be practicing a lot of compassion or self-awareness in the relationship, though. Ergo, my votes above.
Really? You don’t know women who sleep with men when they’re drunk and then later regret it who have no idea that they’re attractive? Who in fact have the self-esteem of an amoeba and are absolutely certain that they’re ugly and no sober sane man would find them attractive? 'Cause I know far more of that type than I know women who think they’re All That[sup]TM[/sup] and engage in Drunken Regret Sex on a regular basis.
I suspect it’s more the norm than the exception, actually. But it still doesn’t make it her responsibility to account for his unspoken feelings and to assume he’s a dishonest dog. Dishonest by omission, perhaps, but still dishonest.
Teasing is making someone think they can have something they can’t have. I can’t see any evidence that Dave cannot have a platonic relationship with Maddie. I’ve had a lot of platonic relationships with women I’ve found attractive, many of whom are even married. Just because, if the situation were different, I wouldn’t mind trying a romantic relationship with a woman doesn’t mean that we can’t have a non-flirtatious friendship.
Being honest and upfront about romantic feelings is just not something that is expected in a platonic relationship. How long do you think I’d be friends with these married women if I told them they were attractive? For some reason, just discussing attraction to each other ruins platonic relationships. This holds even when one side knows that the other is attracted to them–just as long as no one says anything.
I’d love it if everyone could just be 100% transparent about everything, but that rarely seems to work out. A friendship where you are 100% emotionally intimate is rare. But not sharing something is not the same thing as implying something that is untrue. Only the latter is teasing.
EDIT: To make it more obvious since you keep going on this idea: NOT SHARING YOUR FEELINGS IS NOT BEING DISHONEST. It is how every single human being on the face of the planet works. Dave is not being dishonest unless he does not want to be friends with Maddie.
Dave is having an existential crisis because Maddie let him into the house while she was getting ready for a church event. They had non-flirtatious conversation while she got dressed and did her hair/makeup, and he is wondering if it was some veiled come-on. His unstated feelings for her are going to completely ruin their friendship, because he’s allowing them to run ragged over common sense.
These are not mutually incompatible states. I have never wanted to be in a romantic relationship with someone that I did not also want to be in a platonic relationship with. A romantic relationship is an add-on to a platonic relationship. It’s not a whole other thing.
Dave is only being dishonest if you assume that the only reason he is friends with Maddie is that he plans to convince her to want to be more. The fact that he was talking about some other girl he wanted to date makes that seem quite unlikely. He clearly is okay with just being friends, if that’s all she wants. But, if she wants more, he’s okay with that, too.
Simply choosing to not share with someone that you would like to be in a relationship with them is not dishonest. It is the usual state of things. Only if you believe that there is a chance of reciprocation will you share. And Dave has had every reason to believe that Maddie does not reciprocate.
There’s nothing more awkward than admitting to liking someone who doesn’t like you back. It’s definitely enough to ruin friendships. If you value a friendship, don’t do it. If Dave did not value a platonic friendship, he would have no reason to not have “made a move” on her.
Well, then, all the other people who think she was flirting or teasing must also be in love with her, right? No, the situation is legitimately questionable. I’d err on the side of it meaning nothing, too, but that doesn’t mean I don’t see the flirtatious implications.
Trying to decipher signals is normal. It would be nice if everyone were 100% transparent, but they aren’t, so some level of decoding is necessary. As long as the guy is just asking friends rather than actually planning to make a move, I think the friendship is fine.
I’d say they’re in the friend zone. But if Maddie has even the slightest inkling that Dave has feelings for her, walking around wearing just a towel is really poor form.
The reason he thinks of her as “friend” is because he believes they aren’t orientationally compatible. Single straight men are NOT “friends” with single straight women. Geez, am I the only Doper who’s seen When Harry Met Sally?