Is this girl a tease, or is this guy an idiot?

The following story is “true.” That last word is in quotation marks because the tale was related to your humble chronicler as having actually occurred, but I wasn’t there for the crucial bits so cannot vouch for them. Also, a few of the identifying details have been changed. Here’s the sitch:

So there’s these two young people, Dave and Maddie, so named 'cause I’m listening to Al Jarreau. Dave’s in his late 20s, straight, and manages a bank branch; he’s somewhat lacking in self-confidence when it comes to women. Maddie’s a little younger, divorced, and allegedly lesbian. I say “allegedly” not merely because she’s divorced but also because she’s slept with men since coming out. She claims this is because she always regrets having sex with men after the fact, and she always at least buzzed if not outright drunk when she’s in bed with a guy. Maddie’s main job is waitressing, but on the side she does modeling for art classes at a local university. She’s quite casual about skin in general, saying she doesn’t understand why there’s such a taboo about nudity.

Dave and Maddie are friends. It’s rather an unequal friendship, as anyone who seems them together can tell that Dave’s at least 33% in love with her. But since Maddie’s official position is that she’s gay unless intoxicated, and Dave is a mensch, he does not make advances on her. That is part of what Maddie likes about him; she’s told mutual friends that she trusts Dave more than any other man. She’s wept in his arms after a bad breakup without him trying to sleep with her; she’s gotten drunk with him and awakened to find all her clothes on and Dave sleeping on the sofa.

Recently Dave & Maddie were scheduled to work together at a church charity event. Maddie owns a car but asked Dave to drive her there anyway. When hecame to her house at the agreed-upon time, she wasn’t quite ready; she asked him to wait in the living room while she showered. When she finished her shower she emerged from the bathroom wearing only in a towel, went to her bedroom ostensibly to get various hair products, and proceeded to talk with him while conducting her feminine ablutions. She chatted with him the entire time and twice more crossed from bathroom to bedroom clad only in a towel. The conversation was not salacious or even flirtatious; the nearest it approached the latter was when Dave asked if he should ask out a certain mutual acquaintance of theirs, and Maddie replied that if he was really interested he should grasp the bull by the horns–but not with THAT woman, as she was not good enough for him. After saying this she emerged from the bedroom fully dressed and they went to the charity event.

All this has left Dave confuzzled. Part of him thinks he missed an opportunity to make a move on Maddie, that she was giving him signals left and right. Another part thinks that, no, she just trusts him so much (and has him so deep in the freind zone) that she didn’t see anything sexual about walking around in a towel around him. A third part of him thinks that Maddie is just a tease–that she was getting off on what she was doing.

What do you think, and why? As always you can answer either in the thread, in the poll, or both, but only by doing the latter do you get any dessert.

I believe this is a case of trust. She says she is comfortable in her skin, and then proceeds to prove the point by walking around without a lot on. People who are comfortable with nudity tend to not associate plain nudity directly with sexual overtones. She’s just acting normal.

I see no reason why she would be getting off on teasing. Nothing in the story hints to that personality trait; it’s just an assumption based on the situation.

The dude should enjoy the friendship he has, and go grab the bull by the horns with the other gal.

Poor Dave has slid right past “Friend Zone” and into “Sister Zone.”

The woman is a tease and a slut and must be burned at the stake, least she corrupt others with her Satanistic femininity.

Or, you know, she just trusts Dave.

Maddie’s been drinking again.

I have a close lesbian friend who would dare to wear a towel near me and neither of us would think anything of it. For some people, it’s not easy being friends with the opposite sex but it helps if 1) you’re not at all in love with them and 2) they’re gay.

I’m a little disturbed that Maddie’s metric for determining whether someone is a good guy or not includes “does not rape me when I’m drunk”.

There’s a thing that exists, and I’ve only notice this with women (or had it admitted to me by women) but that’s not to say men don’t do it too:

Some women don’t want you for themselves, but at the same time, they don’t want anyone else to have you either. (At least, not while she’s still single herself.)
Or ya’ know, like Bob Ducca says: “Sister zone”

Not using poll choices, because none of them apply.

It is not Dave’s responsibility to take sexual initiative with Maddie just because he’s got the boy parts.

He has adequate reason to believe that if Maddie wanted to have a sexual relationship with him, she could do something about that. He need not think he “missed an opportunity to make a move on her”. She could put a move on him.

He also has adequate reason to believe that she would prefer that he not put moves on her. She’s said she doesn’t really want male sexual partners and regrets the ones she’s had, and appreciates being able to trust him not to make advances on her.

Maddie may in fact be contemplating jumping his bones and he could ruin all that by putting her in a situation where she has to respond to his initiative instead.

It IS Maddie’s responsibility under the circumstances (not just because she’s got the girl parts but because of the various conversations such as they’ve existed up to this point) to do something if in fact she wants to have a thing with Dave.

I selected #2 & #3 but “tease” is harsher than I really mean. I wouldn’t be surprised if there was some “safe flirting” component to it though.

I’m just going from the gut; obviously don’t know either of them to make it worth debating the point.

My take: Maddie may well have been flirting or hinting, but that doesn’t mean she wanted/expected Dave to make a move on her right then and there.

To be fair, that should be part of anyone’s menschness metric. But it’s a bare minimum.

I feel safe in saying that Maddie’s emotional intelligence is not quite as high as might be best.

I kinda got that impression, and I, personally, would be wary of getting involved with someone who gets drunk and does things she regrets and wouldn’t have done sober.

That too. But what I meant in this context is the fact that Maddie seems not to realize that Dave’s warm for her form as well as a good buddy, and adjust her behavior accordingly.

Dave could just ask her if they are just (1) friends, (2) possibly friends with benefits, or (3) could become more than friends with benefits.

If I were Dave, I’d keep my distance. Crazy can be fun, but crazy can also be too crazy.

Perhaps she just wants to mess with his head and/or boost her own sagging ego?

I answered friend zone. My only quibble is saying he’s ‘stuck in the friend zone’. Being friends is all they would ever be anyway. There’s nothing stuck about it because she’s gay, or perhaps bi when drunk. If he tried to make a move, that makes him an asshole because the only time it would happen is taking advantage of her while drunk.

Is there a “Mother Zone”?

Dave really shouldn’t be confused. Maddie doesn’t want him, at all.

I think all the poll options are true to varying degrees.

Dave’s an idiot but he shouldn’t make sexual advances towards her. Dave’s a mensch but to an abnormal level, probably because of the prospect of sex. Remove that prospect and he’ll be at the sweet spot of meschiness.

Maddie knows what she’s doing but she doesn’t know if what she’s doing is good for her or not. Lesbian or not, she’s at least inconsiderate when her friend comes to pick her up she’s not showered/dressed.

And God yes, pies of all sorts washed down with beer please.

And why exactly is it her job to a) notice that and b) adjust her behavior? Is Dave mute? Do his legs not work to allow him to walk out the door? Because you left that part out of your description.

There is at least one someone here who is not being honest and upfront about their feelings. There may be two, but there’s not enough information to determine whether Maddie is one of them. I believe that makes DAVE a tease - teasing her with a supposedly platonic friendship that he doesn’t really hold for her.