A damning irony.
He’s posting today or you can try Emailing him.
I am busy mostly agreeing with him in this thread: http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=343179
Hope that helps.
Jim 
Honeslty, I’d be interested to see what he had to say after perusing that thread.
Black people don’t drink diet pop, either.
I mean, seriously, for all you had Janet Jackson dancing around promoting DIet Coke back in the 80s and 90s, it just isn’t a big seler amongst the African American community.
I get this info because my wife often works the snack counter at the Fisher Theatre in Detroit. When it’s a show like Les Miserables (ie that attracts a diverse audience), they sell lots of drinks of all types. If it’s an African American show (ie Color of a Man), they will sell maybe 1 diet pop out of 300 or more. It’s wierd.
I disagree. People from different cultures tend to like different things, and people from different races often belong to different cultures. Therefore, people from different races often tend to like different things, but only for reasons one step removed from the racial categories.
Sometimes folks use race as shorthand for culture; I think that’s a risky endeavor. That’s what weasel words are for: if you’d said, “Just about all the black folk I’ve ever served steak to wanted it well-done,” you would’ve been in the clear. By ascribing the well-done thing to all black people, you were making a false generalization. One that is totally benign (well, almost totally benign, as others have pointed out), but still a false generalization based on race, and that’s kinda what racist means.
Do folks who think this wasn’t racist think that it was a true generalization–that nobody who’s black likes rare steak? Do they think that there’s a different definition for racism? Or do they think that a generalization has to meet some threshhold of truth before it can be considered true?
Daniel
I repeat what I said in the 3rd post
Let’s not devalue the term racist too much.
Jim
Good point there. I definately should not be conflating culture and race. There are a few other points I’d like to address in your last post as well.
It was certainly a generalization, and not totally true. We’ve already had a post from a UrbanChic saying she prefers her steaks a bit on the gorier side. It’s just largely true.
As for asking for a definition of what is racist from someone who feels this wasn’t (yours truly, among others), I just think that something this benign shouldn’t be considered racist. It contains no sense of any other races superiority or the inferiority of the race I spoke of. Going straight to the defacto online dictionary, racism is defined as:
Note the “and” in the first definition. Not “or.” That’s the key to what I would consider racist versus just a half-reckless generalization. Anybody have OED permissions?
What I said, in 8 words or less.
I agree–but I want a working definition. For example, if a group of white frat boys drive by a black fraternity waving fried chicken out the window, I’m guessing we could all agree that this was racist. What characteristics does it have that the OP’s story does not have?
I don’t see that it expresses an opinion that one race is better than another; in fact, probably every one of those white frat boys likes to eat fried chicken. At the same time, it’s got some ugly angle to it.
I’m really not trying to say that the OP did anything significantly wrong; I don’t see it as being any worse than if he’d said, “man, girls who wear glasses are WILD in bed!” (another incorrect generalization based on a physical feature). However, I want a definition of racism that I can apply fairly and consistently.
Daniel
What’s largely true? That in the extremely limited sample of African-Americans you came across, you noticed that they perferred to have their steaks well done or in the entire world, the majority of people who you would call “black”, like their steaks well done?
Racist no. Interesting yes. I’m a dutch-canadian , (really white) and always have eaten steak blue. when I visited Holland back in 75, for several weeks I had several servings of steak tartare which I absolutely loved, and which I absolutely miss since coming back to Canada. If you want to assert that the Dutch like their steak rare, feel free, whether you are right or wrong, I won’t be offended.
By the way, the best steak I ever had was at a Ruth’s Chris in Dallas, Texas about a month ago. A rare filet mignon.
Racist no. Interesting yes. I’m a dutch-canadian , (really white) and always have eaten steak blue. when I visited Holland back in 75, for several weeks I had several servings of steak tartare which I absolutely loved, and which I absolutely miss since coming back to Canada. If you want to assert that the Dutch like their steak rare, feel free, whether you are right or wrong, I won’t be offended.
By the way, the best steak I ever had was at a Ruth’s Chris in Dallas, Texas about a month ago. A rare filet mignon.
First off: black, as in African Americans. I thought that was fairly obvious.
Secondly, yes, originally my generalization came from a single experience, but upon noticing several years ago, I started asking around, asking those who I was sure wouldn’t construe my question as ignorant or racist, but as genuinely curious. I based my comment in the discussion I referrenced in the OP on these findings. I don’t want to make it sound like I conducted a wholesale study here; just asking black friends and co-workers who I was close with when we happened to be out eating and they happened to order well-done red meat. SO yes, I would consider it largely true, certainly in my experience.
I’m curious if anyone else who comes along in this thread who’s either black or works in a steak house or restaurant that serves red-meat would mind sharing. Just to round it out.
Hmmm…to many English blood-loving steak-eaters, Ireland is a terrible place where they’re determined to cook everything until nothing red remains. Go figure.
In response to the OP: If things happened exactly as you recall, then yes, you’re in the clear. But you need to think carefully…is it possible that a comment you made at some point in the past, perhaps about how real steak eaters order their steak or similar, might contradict something you might’ve said more recently? After all, anything can be overheard by other employees.
Hmmm…well said. Kind of trumps my definition. Brain-racking time.
The girl I was talking to was not an employee in the restaurant I worked, nor had she and I broached this topic before (not in any real detail before. Rather, I should say not with any disagreement as to what constitutes a racist statement). When she called me out on my statement it was largely knee-jerk, with no thought to anything I might have said about real steak eaters, which I’m pretty sure I never have. It sounds lame, but you had to be there.
Yep. That sounded lame alright.
Mockery makes a big difference. Birdmonster - although perhaps this isn’t apparent to his lunch companion - is talking warmly about people he knows. The frat boys in your example are just making fun of strangers with a broadly accepted stereotype.
I think UrbanChic more or less made this point already, but I’ll add that the older generations in my (black, just for clarification) family definitely ate everything well-done. I was also given the impression (although I don’t think it was ever explicitly stated to me) that this was done to make sure the meat was thoroughly cooked and disease-free.
My wife, who is not black, and her family have since introduced me to the joys of lesser-done meat, and I’m a convert (although I still prefer medium over medium-rare). Birdmonster, I’m not sure if that helps you at all.
Though I agree it isn’t racist, I wonder if what was said was
“Black people like watermellons” or “Black people like fried chicken” would seem racist even if they also came from personal experience?
I think though saying with qualification would be better.
“In my experience, black people prefer their steak well done.”
OK, Unfortunately I am not capable of supplying the definition, but other will probably put up a good effort.
Have a good Night,
Jim