I was wondering what others may think about the trends in the U.S. –
Do the positive aspects of society in the U.S. outweigh the negative aspects? or vice-versa?
Examples: The U.S. leads in technological advancements and economy-related issues.
Yet, the U.S. has more murders between citizens than any other country.
What other examples can you think of? Is the U.S. declining, survivng, or thriving?
I don’t believe that’s true, actually. I think the country with the highest murder rate is Colombia.
I don’t believe that’s true, actually. I think the country with the highest murder rate is Colombia.
But maybe not. This story from the Eastern Cape Dispatch says South Africa has the highest murder rate:
This is a huge question, Orbytal. Typical “quality of life” indicators used to evaluate the health of societies as a whole include such items as per-capita GNP, life expectancy, infant mortality, literacy rates, crime rates, education levels, water quality, air quality, unemployment rates, degree of wealth/income inequality, poverty levels, household incomes, net employment growth, school class sizes, birth rates in various population sectors, health care accessibility, communicable disease infection rates, substance abuse rates, housing costs, voter turnouts, and racial violence—to name but a few.
Out of all these issues, we’ve now established (thanks to Capt. A) that the U.S. murder rate is not the highest in the world. Well, that’s a good start. Next!
If you notice, the lowest murder rates tend to happen in countries that are more homogenous. The USA has never been that. We will never be that.
It also has something to do with our form of government and the size and scope of our nation. Our government is based on the theory that the people are supreme and the government is subject to the people (although that has been changing radically over the last 150 years). Most other governments are just the opposite. The government is supreme and the people are it’s subjects. What this means is that we have a lot more freedoms and people are much less afraid of their own government. The nasty ones often get attitudes about that, even getting to think that they can shoot government agents who trespass on their land, or act as they wish believing that the government has no business in their affairs.
The scope and diversity of our nation means that there are a lot of places to go and a lot of variance in the level of policing. You can get away with a lot when the police only drive down your dirt road once a month or less…
As far as most other issues, I would tend to argue that things have always been thus. It is only now, with the mass media, that we hear about these things. One Hundred years ago, you or I wouldn’t hear about killings, rapes, major crimes in some out of the way burg unless it involved some major figure or somehow became a sensation. Now we hear every story about every moron on the face of the earth.
As far as morality; Again, it’s how much we hear. In the past, many of these things simply were not discussed. I vaguely remember something on weddings and pregnancies in the Victorian era. Something like 50-60% of brides were pregnant when they got married. But gee, oh no, they were PURE minded people, eh? No premarital sex then! Nope, not at all.
Cite please
I will agree with you on that point. murders have been declining the past few years, but the coverage has gone up (like 600% according to Barry Glassner who wrote *The Culture of Fear*)
While I agree that form of government has a strong correlation with standard of living I seriously doubt that it has much effect on the murder rate.
I also take issue with the idea that most other governments are just the opposite. Do have any evidence for this ?
According to the Human Development Index published by the United Nations, the US is declining relative to other countries at the top of the list.
You can check out part of the report here http://hdr.undp.org/reports/global/2002/en/
The index is on page 42 of http://hdr.undp.org/reports/global/2002/en/pdf/chapterone.pdf
My short answer is that the positive aspects outweigh the negative aspects … but I have a deep emotional sense that the negative aspects are on the rise and have been for the last couple of years.
Sorry Tars, I’m not a 4+digit research freak. No offense, but I don’t feel the need to document and provide complete technical proof for every statement I make. You doubt what I say, feel free to prove me wrong. You do so, I will admit my error.
(barely supressed laugh) Um, have you looked at the rest of the world? Find me countries where the people are not subjects. Short list. And don’t include nations simply because they are democracies. That means little vis the power the goverment has over the individual.
Perhaps you have mistaken this for some other message board?
:wally
It’s one thing to state an opinion, Chimera, but stating as fact that “the lowest murder rates tend to happen in countries that are more homogenous” really could use some evidence behind it.
Otherwise I’d just say that the highest murder rates tend to happen in countries that contain the letter Y, and I’d insist that the burden of evidence is not on me, but on you.
While we’re at it, the moon is made of green cheese, and I’m not wearing pants.
Speaking as a Moderator: NO cite on that one, m’kay?
Well, if you want a cogent comparison, there’s always U.S. vs. Canada. Standards of living are pretty much the same and social standards are comparable in enarly all fields except violent crime, and that’s due largely (I feel) to the gun culture the Americans have.
America is violent, but it’s certainly thriving, and if I had to leave Canada for any reason, the U.S. would be my first, second and third choice as my new home. I would carefully choose what American city to live in, but the nation would not be in doubt.
If anything’s in decline, it’s American entertainment. The film, television and music product has been largely a retread of past ideas and themes. The Jews who run Hollywood (according to various conspiracy nuts) are clearly getting lazy.
Buckner: Moderator hat on, Poster’s pants off. That follows.
I noticed their list of qualifications following that is suspect. The US already has in place our own choices, and does not need to submit to a foreign treaty to accomplish them. And voter turnout means a lot of things, not the least of which is that countries that punish you for not viting tend to have higher rates…
I would certainly agree with the idea that homogeneity leads to lower murder rates. However, trying to prove it woul dbe nigh impossible. Imagine trying to figure out what factors need be considered.
Perhaps a better way to think of this is that American culture is wierd, wild, and fun. Its like a permanent sugar rush. Americans tend to do things the mostest, the fastest, and the bestest if its at all possible. Throw a huge pot of immigration into the mix, and heya: theres a recipe for complications, of both the good and bad kind.
I disagree with the idea that the film and TV industry is going south. Certainly, music is not. Despite crap being dumped out by record labels always in search of the next hot artist, there is a LOT of good music out there. Local bands around Knoxville are potent and numerous enough to host weekly concerts in Market Square (when the weather permits, anyway). Plus, nowadays, they can make their own CD’s, sell their own stuff, its cool. TV has ben slow for a couple years, but then, think about what left the airwaves during that time: X-files (after it slumped off); The Invisible Man; Babylon 5; und so weiter. New shows will surely replace them. Film is stilll good. We’ve had X-Men (if not a classic, then a relatively new look at Superheroes in film); SPider-Man; Lord of the RIngs (which, while old, finally recieved the film treatment it deserved. Gladiator, Crouching Tiger/Hidden Dragon.
I imagine in ten years,m people will be saying the same thing and looking fondly back at the good old days of 2002.