The military is not a panacea… I’ve seen many kids fuck up, get booted, even a few sent off to military prison(though selling X on the ship really isn’t a good idea at any rate). I’ve also seen many succeed. My boss was a reformed car thief/drug dealer. Great guy, smart as hell. A bit too motivated for my tastes, but I’m generally more lazy than the average person.
Bottom line is… It may not help, but, at the same time, It may. What it most definitely is is something different. A more structured, rigid life, and that may be what your son needs at this point to turn himself around.
Ofc, it could also be that he’s just a slacker through and through.
Suggest to him that he look into it. He might be looking for a way to make things better for himself, but habits are hard to break in the same familiar surroundings.
And might I suggest taking the computer away altogether? If he needs one for class, the school probably has a computer lab, or the library will have some. Let him know he can have it back when he proves himself. Or maybe come up with some other way for him to start breaking the cycle. If you and your son agree on some requirement for him, would his mother enforce it?
Speaking as somebody who plays quite a lot of WoW (and played a lot of Diablo II before that), it is not healthy for your son to be playing any game so much that his responsibilities suffer for it, whether those responsibilities are school or work. Either he’s addicted, or he’s using the games as a form of escapism. Either way, just pulling the games away isn’t going to fix anything–he’ll just find a new high or a new form of escapism until you address the root causes that are making him so unhappy with his life.
I work at a college that has Game Design as one of the majors.
Three guesses how you would describe 95% of those students - I think the kid would fit in there perfectly.
Plus - show of hands: How many people would rather see this kid in charge of designing a video game than in charge of pushing a button to kill real people?
Shot from Guns basically said what I came in to say. The game playing really sounds like it’s reached pathological level. If you were to substitute “drinking” for “playing WoW,” you’d have about the same story. OK, probably no liver damage with WoW.
I think that if you put the right system of incentives and consequences in place, he will find out about the military on his own. They are pretty in touch with the young male slacker demographic. I do know one real success story of someone turning things around with the military, but even that included a close call with getting into very serious military legal trouble.
**DMark **- are those students headed for anything good, or are they mostly enjoying a couple of years of subsidized game playing before taking jobs in retail?
Not all kids are equipped to go directly to college from high school. I took five years “off” between HS and college, but when I finally went back to school, I made As (as opposed to that solid C average in HS). Of course, I paid for it myself and had my *own *goals rather than those set for me by parents, teachers, etc. Maybe he just needs to get out and experience life a little; then he’ll see how truly stupid he is and decide to go back to college and do well. Or maybe he’ll do really well without a degree. It happens. But he can’t just do nothing, was my point.
You know…What was his social life like in high school? It’s possible that he’s using WoW for a subsistute community for what he missed out on in high school. Is he smart but doesn’t apply himself? Maybe sit him down and see what his real interests are? What about Job corps or Americorps or something like that?
There is actually a lot of things these students can do when they finish their degrees in Game Design…although most want/intend to go out and design the next big hit video game (and some might just do that) there are other jobs out there. For instance, all of the new slot machines require game technology to get those characters moving and doing what needs to be done, plus there is a whole new technology coming down the pike. They also have many opportunities with new cell phone applications; new website technology and many other things that are still in planning stages. Despite what many might think, the current video game phenomena is only the tip of the iceberg when it comes to technology that is already in beta testing stages. To be quite honest, if I were 20-something now, I would give Game Design serious consideration.
I agree it would be great or awful. Depending on his personality, he may be better off doing manual labor. I highly value autonomy and am self employed. When I was young and floundering I got into manual labor and that straightened me out. To me the military is one step above prison.
That said, my fiance is in the Army and she likes structure and the orderly way they allow you to advance your career. She’s thriving in that environment. I’m proud of her accomplishments but would personally find being in the military a hellish experience. And if some adult had talked me into it when I was young and aimless, I would severely resent that.
Totally seconded. Except that prison (white collar) looks much better to me.
An associate degree in welding arts might turn him into an artist and/or the village blacksmith. It should be clear that our military is being privatized out of existence because a “peace” time draft is politically unthinkable and there’s lots of money being made. From where I sit, the military is a dead end in more ways than one.
I’ll answer this first, and despite the piling on that will surely follow, I want to state emphatically that I advise against your son going into the military in any capacity whatsoever, for various reasons.
First, the military, esp. the US military, is ** not** a wonderful cure-all for problem kids. The infamous “boot camp” training method ** does not** turn slouchers into Real Man, because the people don’t develop self-discipline; rather, their personality is destroyed and replaced with that of a automaton who obeys orders - discipline from outside.
So if the problem already is that he lacks self-discipline, then this is going the wrong way to build it.
Secondly, the job of the military is to kill people, and for the last decades, the US has engaged in imperialistic, unneccessary wars. I’m ethically opposed to that.
Thirdly, - as probably the military dopers themselves will say - because of all the killing going on, people’s lives depend on everybody being reliable. If your son doesn’t do well at college, how would you feel if some other soldier is killed because he can’t measure up?
Lastly, there are tons of other ways to make a man out of somebody if that person wants to be changed. If your son got along with his slouching so far because nothing bad ever happens, why should he change?
If he’s happy to exist in a place with food and a console, you can consider how much this option would cost you (a cheap trailer, a monthly alllowance, nothing if he exceeds that) compared to other options of “changing him into a Real Man”. No option will work magically if he doesn’t want it.
Now, you probably think that would be a waste of a life, and that he shouldn’t throw away other options if he hasn’t tried them.
But then you need to have a serious talk ** with** him, not at him, about what he wants. Explain clearly, without pussyfooting, what his interests besides gaming are, and what he wants to do. Explain that if he tries something else seriously, you are ready to foot his trailer-food-gaming bill in two years time, but he has to try sincerely, otherwise you will cut him off forever.
Be prepared and ready to accept if he finds that his true calling is woodsmith or forest ranger or whatever, with no social status, and a monthly income of 400 $, but he’s happy. Or maybe he wants to join a gaming company to develop games (many gamers want, but few take the trouble of learning the necessary stuff). Maybe you can get him a few practice weeks at a gaming company, like an intern, and then tell him how long studying informatik at university takes, and what it requires.
If you help him discover his real talent, or interest, his true calling, one where a fire burns in his soul and everything feels right, and you accept and support it, then he will develop the necessary self-discipline to reach that goal.
If you just force him to go somewhere that would be good for him, you’re throwing money out the window while he ignores it.
At age 19 kids are no longer real kids, and should have learned the basics to be able to float at least. Also, what were you doing before the last 7 years, laying foundations for him to develop self-discipline and interest in the world around him? A lot of pedagogic methods that work on children (when applied consistenly and long-term, no miracles short-term) won’t work on teens or young adults.
If a 19 year old person needs his mother to tell him to go to bed early and do his homework, otherwise he’ll party, then he’s fucked up either way. Replacing the mother with a drill sergeant is not an improvement.
Maybe he’s addicted to gaming now. In that case he first needs anti-addiction therapy, and then the real issue underneath tackled.
Would you give up your hobbys, whatever they are, just because somebody else tells you to? He’s not acting like a 19 year old mature person, but like a spoiled teenager. He should not be at college if he’s not mature.
If you want to treat him like the maturity age he’s currently at, = a teenager, and if you are ready to face a long struggle, then
take him off college. You can’t make him learn if he doesn’t want to.
take him home, and institute strict rules. Only those that are necessary - nothing of this “respect my authority” nonsense. Give him a bare room with only necessities. For example, instead of an expensive Win XP notebook, get a simple 300 $ netbook with Linux and Open office, nothing else. He only needs it to write things, right? No surfing unless you are with him.
If you have the opportunity, a mountain cabin or similar austere place remote but with lots of nature would be good.
Get professional help for therapy, for both of you. Obviously, you messed him in up childhood before he went to your exwife, otherwise there would be something you could connect to. You both need to put the past behind you, stop pushing buttons and work on getting things under control.
To fill all the time free from gaming and school, take him on trips to awaken his interest: nature, museums, but also a week at a machine or wood shop, one week in an office typing one week at Burger King etc. As many experiences as possible - you don’t want to punish him, after all, but awaken his interests. Remember that.
To properly do your job as parent, you won’t have time for an 8hr workday while he sits around all day at home alone, so be prepared to take half a year sabbatical at least. Otherwise, if he has one hour of therapy each day, and the rest of the day to himself - either in college or at home - he won’t change.
Enroll him in a sport, while we are there. A good martial arts with the proper teaching style (In Karate Kid terms, Mr. Miyagi style, not Kobra Kai) - lots of concentrating on getting each move right, with meditation before and after class, and patient teachers. Maybe Aikido or Kendo, with less emphasis on competitions.
Don’t forget people worse off than him. He sounds like leading a sheltered life, so take him to a homeless shelter and let him work there, or talk to a peace corps person (they wouldn’t want him now, but maybe once he got his act together). We have voluntary years for working in the social area (nursing old people or working in kindergardens), in the ecological area and so on. I don’t know what your area offers.
There are also guides about internships abroad: some people are so fascinated with bird watching that they spend their summer living on 300 $ (or even paying that much) sleeping on rocks on a tiny island for the chance to help the Bird society establish migratory patterns or similar. They only have a backpack and travel through Europe and the UK. Experiences like this can teach young adults a lot of indepence and self-sustainability and similar, if they are already interested and open to the world.
So what was he interested in then? What project was this exactly? Have you talked about that with him - not as an accusation, but out of genuine interest?
Were or are you prepared to accept that maybe he simply isn’t interested in a scholarly job, but in a practical one, and slacks off because he considers school/ college a waste of his time? Maybe he would happily carve wooden animals and work his ass off doing an apprenticeship for three years?
Personally, I would strongly recommend that he look at the military as a viable option. Coast Guard first, Air Force second Navy third. It will definitely instill some discipline and structure. However, it’s still up to him.
After my brother in law flunked out of college, everybody told him to try the military. He went into the Air Force, stayed there 8 years, did his job, got promoted a couple of times. Then he went back to civlian life.
He’s smart and capable of working very hard when he’s motivated. But he’s had a series of jobs that he either leaves quickly or gets laid off (there were probably a couple of firings in there that he called being laid off.) He’s gone through a couple of marriages, with a couple of kids, is deeply in debt and despite currently making a pretty good salary, is kept afloat by his father.
The problem is that just because you play Warcraft all day does not necessarily mean that you would be good at or would even enjoy a career in computers or videogame design. And no matter what career you pick, lacking discipline and motivation is going to hurt you.
I’m also a little skeptical as to why the utilitarian aspects of game design, like designing animations for slot machines, won’t wind up in India or China. It seems like some percentage trying to make it in Hollywood, and some percentage readily offshoreable drudgery. I do know someone doing something similar at the PhD level, though, and he really is set to do some neat stuff with his career.
