is US citizents addicted by the idea that USA is a superpower

America can’t win. What was the biggest criticism of Bush before Sept 11? That was he was an isolationist. He was criticised for not intervening in the Middle East. He was criticised for saying that he thought the U.S. got involved in too many conflicts around the world.

Now that he’s engaged, he’s being criticised for interfering.

I’m not American, but quite frankly I’m getting mighty sick of the criticism of the United States, especially from Europe. America, it’s claimed, is crass and unsophisticated. This from a region that has continual riots, soccer hooliganism, skyrocketing crime rates, and elections in which an wacko who supported Milosovic and makes jokes about gas chambers is in a run-off election in France.

And let’s not forget that the reason the U.S. originally went into Vietnam was to support the FRENCH, who were trying to exercise the remnants of their colonial power.

And let’s not forget that the whole reason the middle east is screwed up is because of the partitioning that took place under BRITISH colonialism.

If they all hate the United States so much (which has sent men to die to save their asses more than once), then maybe the U.S. should just announce that it will no longer come to the defense of any of them should the need arise. THen we’ll hear howling about U.S. ‘disengagement’ from the world.

Hello. My name is DaLovin’ Dj and I’m a patrioholic.

Yeah. I just can’t get enough of the stuff. First I lost my job, than my wife left me. Now I’m losing the house. I truly have hit rock bottom.

My addiction started off innocently enough. I started watching the History channel. At first it was just a quick half-hour show about the Declaration of independence. It felt great. I was proud for the first time in a long time. But soon that wasn’t enough to make me proud any more. I figured I’d go to the library - who was I going to hurt but myself? I read about the first world war and I was on cloud nine. All I could talk about to all my friends was how great America was. I couldn’t tell my wife enough about how we were victorious in a global field of battle. It may have been OK if I had stopped there.

I couldn’t. The first time I was proud and I loved it. But, now I needed more to reach the same level of pride. I would sit around all day watching how we smacked around the evil powers in the world during WWII. Then I went too far. I started reading about nuclear weapons and global politics. I would tell anyone who would listen that no one in the world could beat us in a war. All I could think of is how much control we have over the world economy. I kept needing bigger and brighter flags. I said the pledge of alegiance 10 times a day and I would play the national anthem all day on a PA system I had jacked from an Ice Cream truck (yes I resorted to stealing to support my habit).

Now I sit around all day watching the news waiting for some sign that we are flexing our muscle so the world knows that which has brought me so much pleasure (and pain). I live for the next government we take over. I get withdrawals when we don’t make any threats to other nations. So to answer your question:

Q. Is US citizents addicted by the idea that USA is a superpower

A. This one is. The worst part is it’s a gateway addiction. Now I can’t stop obsessing over stupid grammar mistakes. I’ll end up dead soon and I’ll have no one to blame except myself.

DaLovin’ Dj

In simplest terms, power is a better thing to have than not to have, right?

The constant national discussion in the US about how to use it, and what the consequences would be, is far more enjoyable than the alternatives: helpless frustration or resignation, or constant complaining, or isolationist thumbsucking, or “us too” abject assimilationism.

That said, there definitely is a strong minority of neoisolationists here who’d prefer that the goal of national power is to prevent the world from having any influence over our precious way of life. There is also a strong contingent that think US military and economic power are so much greater than the rest of the world’s as to be essentially unlimited. Both (overlapping) factions are more often considered ignorant, but they are still influential, especially in the current Administration.

I don’t believe most Americans obsess about our military. Rather, I think that we look at it like I look at the 9mm semi-automatic I keep in my nightstand. I sleep better at night knowing that it is there in case I should ever have to use it, but I don’t go around thinking of myself as some kind of invincible superman because of it. My gun does not cause me to think that everyone must bow to my will. I live my life the same with it as I did without it, only less fearful of losing my life because someone wants to come and take away from me what I have worked hard to earn.

I hope I never have to use my 9mm. Most Americans hope that we never have to use our military. But history has shown that we need it and must keep it in good condition. It may not be my life that is threatened, but my neighbors. It may not be our freedom that is threatened, but our allies.

Don’t confuse our willingness to do what we must, with a desire to do it.

A better question would be how will the average person in the 3rd world react the day the US is no longer a superpower because that’s where the proverbial shit will hit the fan if there was no US to stop it. Even without nukes the Atlantic & Pacific oceans will keep the hun out.

The first part presumes the “average person” in the Third World sees the USA as anything other than some sort of semi-mythical entity that his politicians are always either blaming for their troubles or pointing to as a source of free money. He will continue to get worked over even w/o the US to blame for it.

It also presumes there will be noone to fill the vacuum – which does not have to be filled by one single superpower/world empire – regional powers can enforce order, they’ll just have to incur a whole lot of extra expense. Besides, over the last decade surely the Sierra Leonians and Liberians slept well knowing that militarily powerful USA and economically powerful Europe were around, when their sh*t hit their fan :rolleyes: .
The OP, it seems to me, is about the possibility of the US some day waking up, Britain-like, to the realization that the chant “U-S-A! We’re Number One!” should be “We’re Still Barely In The Top 10!” It will hit some people hard in an emotional or psychological sense – many of them afraid that though the Atlantic and Pacific will “keep the hun out”, the New World Powers may beat Fortress America into economic submission and eventually force it to toe their line. Well, hey, it happens to the best of nations a couple of times through history, if they have any sort of endurance. In cany case, barring an extremely unlikely USSR-type collapse, it’ll be gradual enough for people to adapt to it. And the common American will still think his country is the greatest of all qualitatively, as most people do of their own country, even if it’s not the lead nation.

Power Station: I think our strong military (perhaps too strong?) is a reaction, maybe even a knee-jerk one. But we have a long history to justify it to some extent.

You see, in almost every major conflict, action, and war that the USA has been in since its infancy, we have been caught with our pants around our ankles, militarily speaking. Whether it was material shortage, or outmoded strategic and tactical doctrines, or excessive civilian oversight in the conduct of the fighting, we have begun by screwing the pooch, but then somehow, almost miraculously, pulling it out of the fire and saving the day, whether it was simply our own butts, or someone else’s. Korea, and then Vietnam, dispelled that mythical aura to some extent.

The current leaders of our military were children during the Korean War, and junior and mid-grade officers during the Vietnam War, and saw first hand the bloody price of unpreparedness, for failing to heed the lesson that history has taught every kingdom, every empire, since the dawn of recorded human history: Weakness Invites Agression.

They then made a solemn vow on those fields of bloodied corpses, to the ghosts of the men and women, military and civilian alike, regardless of race, color, religion or country of origin.

Some stayed in The Service to fulfill that vow, while others took off their uniforms and entered the political arena. Their approaches were different, but their goal was the same: Never Again.

If they have been overly zealous in executing that vow, well, look at the blood upon their hands, their heads, and ask yourself: what price this burden?

For it is a burden, one that may become lighter for a bit, as an absense of conflict allows those holding the reigns of power to confidently predict “an end to war in our time.”

But it is never long before someone with the will and charisma to motivate and organize a nation goes on a rampage of conquest and destruction; looting, pillaging, raping and “cleansing” the newly conquered lands for “living room.”

Other nations cluck their tongues, and worry that someone should do something about it. A few actually do, and are either criticized and attacked for not acting quick enough, or for acting at all. If the few say “your criticisms do not trouble me; I am morally correct in protecting the weak from the predations of the strong,” then they are again criticized as being arrogant in their display and use of power.

Bottom Line: Humanity is the ultimate cluster-fuck, with politics being the ultimate circle-jerk. Getting two people of the exact same color, religion and political persuasion to agree that the sky is blue is actually a miracle; getting a dozen or so different nations to agree on a course of military intervention in places like Somalia or Bosnia is damned near impossible. And the clock is ticking, have no doubt about it; with every second that passes, another life is lost, another atrocity committed, another ghost wanders the bloddy fields asking, “why, oh God, why?”

We Americans are blessed by either providence, foresight, or just sheer dumb-luck, with a doctrine that essentially says, “can’t we all just get along?”

And when someone else says, “Fuck you; we’re strong, and so we will take what we want, when we want, and wherever we want it,” we occasionally feel a little bit obliged to man up and say, “No, you won’t.”

If that’s wrong, man, then I don’t wanna be right.

So, in hindsight, maybe our military isn’t strong enough. We can’t put an end to war in our time, not as we are. We can’t be everywhere, for everybody. Because for one thing, we don’t want to do it; for another, you don’t want us to. We pick and choose our fights, trying to combat and destroy the larger evils (as we see them) so as to intimidate the smaller ones.

Since it’s our blood being spilled in so doing, I don’t think it the least bit arrogant for us to decide which evils we will fight. We have but one life to give, and we will do so in a manner and time of our choosing, not yours.

But if we could fight every evil, if we could be in every war to defend one side or another, then we would be foreclosing the political freedom we claim to cherish and revere so much. Both ours and yours.

If that’s wrong, man, then I don’t wanna be right, and the world truly is even more fucked up than I originally thought.

So are we proud of our miltary? To some extent, yes, even if we don’t constantly, consciously think about it in such terms. But knowing we have the political will to build a nigh unstoppable military machine, and the expertise to effectively employ it…well, the knowledge manifests itself in a thousand small ways every day.

And not always in the best of ways. I hope you’ll forgive us, we’re currently combatting one of the greater evils plaguing the human race. A bunch of religious zealots who want to turn the clock back to 800 A.D. for the entire human race chose to start the fight with the USA, supposedly on the theory that if they can beat and eliminate the biggest and the strongest, the lesser will soon follow.

Because, you see, we didn’t start this fight; we were fairly uninterested in the affairs of these zealots until they decided to attack us directly, on our home turf, last September.

We’re not even sure if we should be in this fight, or how best to go about fighting it.

But one thing we are sure of, as it was taught to us rather harshly in Vietnam: we stand behind our men and women in uniform. Whatever the political faults of the action, conflict or war, they serve, they sacrifice, they bleed and die far from home, in the name of love, in the name of country, in the name of duty.

And when they come home, in victory or defeat, whether under their own power or in flag-draped coffins, we will welcome them home as heroes, with all the pomp and circumstance we can find it in our hearts to muster.

And if that’s wrong, man, then I don’t wanna be right.

Because if we don’t, then the next time they are asked to respond to the drums of war, they might not come. We may only be fighting for our own lives at that time. But then again, we might be fighting for yours.

Power Station: I think our strong military (perhaps too strong?) is a reaction, maybe even a knee-jerk one. But we have a long history to justify it to some extent.

You see, in almost every major conflict, action, and war that the USA has been in since its infancy, we have been caught with our pants around our ankles, militarily speaking. Whether it was material shortage, or outmoded strategic and tactical doctrines, or excessive civilian oversight in the conduct of the fighting, we have begun by screwing the pooch, but then somehow, almost miraculously, pulling it out of the fire and saving the day, whether it was simply our own butts, or someone else’s. Korea, and then Vietnam, dispelled that mythical aura to some extent.

The current leaders of our military were children during the Korean War, and junior and mid-grade officers during the Vietnam War, and saw first hand the bloody price of unpreparedness, for failing to heed the lesson that history has taught every kingdom, every empire, since the dawn of recorded human history: Weakness Invites Agression.

They then made a solemn vow on those fields of bloodied corpses, to the ghosts of the men and women, military and civilian alike, regardless of race, color, religion or country of origin.

Some stayed in The Service to fulfill that vow, while others took off their uniforms and entered the political arena. Their approaches were different, but their goal was the same: Never Again.

If they have been overly zealous in executing that vow, well, look at the blood upon their hands, their heads, and ask yourself: what price this burden?

For it is a burden, one that may become lighter for a bit, as an absense of conflict allows those holding the reigns of power to confidently predict “an end to war in our time.”

But it is never long before someone with the will and charisma to motivate and organize a nation goes on a rampage of conquest and destruction; looting, pillaging, raping and “cleansing” the newly conquered lands for “living room.”

Other nations cluck their tongues, and worry that someone should do something about it. A few actually do, and are either criticized and attacked for not acting quick enough, or for acting at all. If the few say “your criticisms do not trouble me; I am morally correct in protecting the weak from the predations of the strong,” then they are again criticized as being arrogant in their display and use of power.

Bottom Line: Humanity is the ultimate cluster-fuck, with politics being the ultimate circle-jerk. Getting two people of the exact same color, religion and political persuasion to agree that the sky is blue is actually a miracle; getting a dozen or so different nations to agree on a course of military intervention in places like Somalia or Bosnia is damned near impossible. And the clock is ticking, have no doubt about it; with every second that passes, another life is lost, another atrocity committed, another ghost wanders the bloddy fields asking, “why, oh God, why?”

We Americans are blessed by either providence, foresight, or just sheer dumb-luck, with a doctrine that essentially says, “can’t we all just get along?”

And when someone else says, “Fuck you; we’re strong, and so we will take what we want, when we want, and wherever we want it,” we occasionally feel a little bit obliged to man up and say, “No, you won’t.”

If that’s wrong, man, then I don’t wanna be right.

So, in hindsight, maybe our military isn’t strong enough. We can’t put an end to war in our time, not as we are. We can’t be everywhere, for everybody. Because for one thing, we don’t want to do it; for another, you don’t want us to. We pick and choose our fights, trying to combat and destroy the larger evils (as we see them) so as to intimidate the smaller ones.

Since it’s our blood being spilled in so doing, I don’t think it the least bit arrogant for us to decide which evils we will fight. We have but one life to give, and we will do so in a manner and time of our choosing, not yours.

But if we could fight every evil, if we could be in every war to defend one side or another, then we would be foreclosing the political freedom we claim to cherish and revere so much. Both ours and yours.

If that’s wrong, man, then I don’t wanna be right, and the world truly is even more fucked up than I originally thought.

So are we proud of our miltary? To some extent, yes, even if we don’t constantly, consciously think about it in such terms. But knowing we have the political will to build a nigh unstoppable military machine, and the expertise to effectively employ it…well, the knowledge manifests itself in a thousand small ways every day.

And not always in the best of ways. I hope you’ll forgive us, we’re currently combatting one of the greater evils plaguing the human race. A bunch of religious zealots who want to turn the clock back to 800 A.D. for the entire human race chose to start the fight with the USA, supposedly on the theory that if they can beat and eliminate the biggest and the strongest, the lesser will soon follow.

Because, you see, we didn’t start this fight; we were fairly uninterested in the affairs of these zealots until they decided to attack us directly, on our home turf, last September.

We’re not even sure if we should be in this fight, or how best to go about fighting it.

But one thing we are sure of, as it was taught to us rather harshly in Vietnam: we stand behind our men and women in uniform. Whatever the political faults of the action, conflict or war, they serve, they sacrifice, they bleed and die far from home, in the name of love, in the name of country, in the name of duty.

And when they come home, in victory or defeat, whether under their own power or in flag-draped coffins, we will welcome them home as heroes, with all the pomp and circumstance we can find it in our hearts to muster.

And if that’s wrong, man, then I don’t wanna be right.

Because if we don’t, then the next time they are asked to respond to the drums of war, they might not come. We may only be fighting for our own lives at that time. But then again, we might be fighting for yours.

applauds Extank (even though he double posted a loooong post) I loved that man. It summed out just how I feel,

Oh bugger. I ment it summed up just how I feel. (and I previewed it too)

Way To Go ExTank… I never seem to get a sad few of my fellow Europeans to appreciate that quite as well as you phrased it!

ExTank, haven’t seen you in a dog’s age. Welcome back.

Sure. This American’s viewpoint on this issue is as follows:

Everybody wants us to fix the problems of the world, but everybody bitches about how we do it if we try, bitches if we don’t try, blames us if we fail, and blames us if we succeed (because we did it wrong). The more America gets pushed into the role of World Policeman (because it is the only remaining superpower), the more some of us think isolationism sounds like a great idea. (Don’t get me wrong: I know isolationism is not a great idea; that it is shortsighted and foolhardy. But sometimes it sounds like a good idea.)

I don’t know why they (we) wouldn’t admit it. IMO, the American military has become a much more important symbol since 9/11, but not perhaps in the way you think. IMO, Americans have either come to feel for the first time, or been prompted to express for the first time, the importance of those in the military and the debt we owe to them. But this is more an appreciation for the American soldier (both as idea and as individual) than it is an appreciation of, say, the newest, coolest tank. But judging by the number of flags flying these days, and the number of thank you signs still up, I don’t think this new sentiment is one Americans are having trouble admitting.

Not so as I’ve noticed. Most Americans are very proud to be American, but IMO it has more to do with historical achievement, civil and human rights, a great standard of living, and the above-mentioned new appreciation for those in national service (soldiers, police officers, firefighters, etc.) than it does with the size of the military. I think many Americans are very ambivalent about America’s role as le superpower, because it’s lately reaped obvious heartache and difficulties.

I kind of doubt it’ll happen all in a day, so I imagine the average American will adjust to a gradual decline in world status over time, and probably won’t feel much regret about it at all.

Well, most of the Brits I know I know from this Board, and AFAIK they seem perfectly content – and very proud – to be British. With good reason. I will say that many Americans I know feel a lot more strongly about the British than they do about their own military might at the moment: Many Americans feel a deep sense of kinship and gratitude to the British, Canadians, Australians, and New Zealanders for their unwavering and unstinting support post-9/11. And that’s matters a hell of a lot more to a lot of us on a personal, emotional level than the size of our military does.