The debate-subject is already explained in the question of the thread title.
People in the USA seems to find it absolutely normal to talk about waging war or other nations and to consider every single US soldier a Hero by default.
The USA is obsessed with developping and stockpiling the most dangerous lethal weapons mankind has ever knew.
And if you read the comments on this board alone (and here they are even very moderate and you see the opposite views, which can not be said about many other US based websites) many people consider waging war and invading other nations a completely normal thing to do for the USA.
In addition; The crimes and mingling in other nations affairs by means of the CIA is not somting disturbing, byut something that is deemd completely normal.
The idea that the US it “the example” for the world and the USA “must bring democracy” to the world (by means of wagin war and/or by means of mingling in other natjions policis and internal affairs) is also deemend something absolutely normal.
Where has all of this its origin?
It is your education system,
Is it the way parents raise their children
Is it the way patriotism is showered onto the population in a never ending stream of rethoric and PR
Or is it a combination of all these factors.
To me this comes across as a disconnect with reality that goes unnoticed, because operating at the subconscience level.
Salaam. A
Uh, a basic education in history (lacking I guess in your little world) would tell you we were formed through war with the English. The greatest military power at the time. (Sorry, France, you had a few good years). See, we were under control of the Brits and decided we were going to elect our own leaders to represent us. We refused to allow a king/dictator (sorry Brits, best way to make a modern analogy) to hold rule.
I may go on, but since you’re such an expert on the US, you know damn well why we insisted on having such a strong military. (The Civil War helped also. Check out the naval warfare during that period.)
After each war we bailed people out of, we came up with major innovations that helped the entire world. From vaccinations to food refrigeration, to communications, to computer sciences, to power supplies, to gasp the very technology you’re using to tell us all how evil the U.S.A. is, ARPANET.
Weak. Rant about your country and why it’s not the bulls-eye of the world. Top-dog is the one everyone wants to take down. I’ve never seen you claim to be American.
(Note to non-U.S. Dopers. I don’t think of you lesser than us, but this shit pisses me off.)
Soldiers are considered heros in this country becuase they sacrifice years of their life and risk life and limb to protect me and my freedoms. There is no indoctrination or brainwashing required just being a normal human that is capable of a bit of objective thinking.
Do you mean by this that you have the idea the you are:
Under a constant threat
You are living a constant war
US soldiers are fighting to get the invaders out
US soldiers are preventing others to come in
Hence you depend completely on the US military to survive?
Flame me for this if you want, but American history displays exactly the opposite trend. We fundamentally love peace, and distrust the military.
Every war we’ve ever fought has been followed by a massive demilitarization. The end of the Cold War brought about base closures worldwide, the disestablishment and consolidation of many military units, and the mothballing or sale of a huge amount of equipment.
In 1987, the Navy had close to 600 ships. Today, the number is closer to 300.
We revere military heroism, true, but this is a separate issue. What matters most is the military spending we engage in and the wars we fight. And on both of these measurements, the US has been shown historically to be reluctant to go to war, and reluctant to fund a military that fully meets the challenges it faces.
Hell, the first strike against America by bin Laden was in the early 1990’s, and we didn’t go to full scale war against his movement until 2001. What does this timeline indicate to you?
I don’t know if it made the news in your parts but America was attacked with over 2500 people killed along with billions and billions worth of damage. Our military is currently fighting to bring these people to justice and prevent further attacks.
To answer your questions:
Yes we are under a constant threat, we are currently in a constant war, nobody invaded us, US soldiers are preventing people from invading (not that I am worried about Mexicans or Canadians pouring across the border) and yes we depend on the military for our survival.
They “sacrifice” their time no more than most people do throughout their working lives.
Admittedly, their jobs get dangerous once in while but so do those of firemen, policemen, miners, bus drivers etc etc etc etc.
Soldiers should not be considered heroes just because they are soldiers.
Well, I’m merely a Navy veteran, in for five years. While I supported operations in the former Yugoslavia directly, I’m not a combat veteran myself.
I can assure you that nobody treats me as a hero. Nor should they.
However, I am afforded from time to time a modicum of respect for volunteering to do a low paying and difficult job. This is appropriate, and warmly received.
Now, real military heroism is another matter entirely, and quite worthy of respect and admiration. I started a series of threads recently about some real heroes from the current conflicts. Reading their stories will show that these men performed brave and noble acts far above and beyond mere duty.
firemen, policemen, miners, bus drivers and virtually every other job let you do whatever you wish when you get off work every day. A soldier in Afghanistan doesn’t get to do what he wants at the end of the day. There is no time off in the middle of a war zone. Not to mention the time spent isolated from family and friends during basic training. A soldier also has little choice in where to live during his service. The army could send them to a post in the middle of a glacier if they wanted. Soldiers do all of this for little pay to protect yours and my freedoms. I consider that being a hero if you do not I really don’t care all I ask is that you respect the sacrifices they made.
It is not what I see happening in the massive support for the invasion of Iraq and the still massive support for it since the US population gave a second term to their war mongering president.
This indicates that the US mindset is rather focussed on war and military actions instead of focussing on non-military possibilities to settle no matter whihc problem internationally.
It also means the the US mindset finds it normal to invade and wage wars on other nations on the flimsiest of pretexts.
Which only means that there first was a massive building up of the already existent military, which was brough to the “normal” standards after the conflict.
No, it is one of the questions in my OP.
Why do you have such a connection made between “military” and “heroism”.
Well yes, look at the mlitary spending; and look at the war you are engaged in at the very moment.
I do not see “reluctance” in the US history to fight wars, the more when they are not to be fought on its own territory.
2.What exactly are these challenges you talk about?
It tells me that
If the US wants to find a scapegoat, they can always find one.
If the US wants to invade a country, they can always use that scapegoat you have made steamed ready for some time to serve that purpose.
I see it not so much as an American trait, but as a Human trait. It just seems to be an American trait because of the times we live in. We happen to be the top dog for the time being. I think if you look throughout history at whichever power was the top dog, you’ll see the populations were probably under the same spell. And certainly more and more brutally as you go back. If you find a power that was on top and not obsessed with its military, bet they weren’t on top for long. (Parts of China’s history come to mind.)
My frustration lies in the fact that Americans have not learned from history. They say hindsight is 20/20, but here we are again… People are just unable to rise above it.
Nice comment, but I haven’t had to worry about getting killed in a training accident at work lately nor have I really considered having to leave my loved ones to defend “democracy” in some third world shithole. Yeah anyone who wears the uniform is a hero to most because they do the shit jobs that no one else will. It is easy to sit a fat ass behind a keyboard and complain about the world, but until someone wears the uniform of their country, that keyboard commando will always see things a bit different.
I myself am included in the keyboard commando club, but had a reality check when many of my inner circle were called to active duty. They went willingly and with honor for a not so honorable cause. Kinda the basis for some heoric stuff huh? Police and firefighters are heroes as well for the exact same reasons that those in the military are. They are typically afforded many of the same “luxuries”: shitty hours, shitty pay, and shitty conditions at the “office”. They do it for the good of their common man. Sounds heroic to me.
No, you are not in a war and you are not under constant threat any more than my country was with the IRA. The War Against Terror is no more a war than the war on drugs. It’s this level of absurd hyperbole that gives credence to the OP.
No it means your bigoted opinions of Americans is wrong
We don’t. Police and Firemen are just as often if not more often considered heroes than soldiers. Not to mention teachers, after school mentors and volunteers are sometimes called heroes.
Hiding from our military that is trying to catch him. Most likely in the mountains on the Pakistan/Afghanistan border.
