The average black man has about as much in common with an actual African Tribesman as my 67yo white mother does.* I think it’s a silly term to use for black folks that were born and raised here in America. Even more so for families that have been here for several generations. That said, I will gladly refer to anybody any way the wish me too.
*Yes, I made the comparison to African tribesmen. Because lets face it, that’s the imagery the term AA projects.
And we shouldn’t challenge ignorant stereotypes?
Not that old canard. Listen, a White person from South Africa who becomes a citizen is a South African American. And Namibia, Namibian American. And so on.
The reason that Black Americans use African American is a) most of us don’t know where in Africa we’re from, precisely, which is important to note - it shows an appreciation and respect for the continent where our ancestors came from, and b) it is a manifestation of the Black Power movement in the 60s and 70s - a name chosen by the people to show pride in our history.
I remember when “African American” became normalized, meaning it wasn’t Amari Baraka types calling themselves that. Mid 80s or so. I know a lot of “Black” people sort of shifted over then.
I do find it amusing when zealous PC types go overboard with African American instead of Black. I heard someone reference Nelson Mandela and Bob Marley as “famous African Americans.”
Personally, I find that I rarely need to refer to use either term, if I do use one, I’ll generally use “black” because, as a couple others mentioned up thread, it is both a racial descriptor (which is overwhelmingly how I’d use it, to describe someone’s appearance), and it is a much simpler term.
African-American also has a bit of a problem in that it’s not like other similar terms.Is it a racial description or is it indicative of culture or place of origin? If it’s the former, I don’t see how it’s any better than black. After all, it’s generally white, maybe Caucasian, not European American, or Asian or possibly a particular country, not Asian American, it’s Hispanic or a particular region or country, not Hispanic-American.
And if it’s like the latter, that’s fine too, but it’s very ambiguous in that regard. That is, there’s nothing particularly African about the culture or origin that it refers to. Yes, there’s the enormous embarrassment of slavery involved, but in many cases, plenty of people’s ancestors immigrated to the US more recently than slaves were brought here. On the other hand, I have met plenty of people who are first or second generation immigrants from all over Africa, and the cultural aspects of that group of people are significantly different. When I hear a term Country/Region-American, I think of those aspects that differentiate people who are fairly recent immigrants that differentiates them from mainstream American culture. In that way, I think this term just serves to confuse.
That all said, if I do find I need to use a term and I’m told by someone that they don’t like me using it and they offer me an alternative, I’ll oblige. But I’ve yet to have anyone say anything. Generally, I’ve found that people just don’t give a crap as long as they know it’s not meant to be offensive.
It’s not an ignorant stereotype. That’s the proper imagery that should be associated with the term AA.
Most black people got here by their slave ancestors. Slave traders got their stock from African tribes, NOT urbanites. Black folks today are so far removed from that, it just seems silly to use that term.
It’s similar to white people who want to go to Ireland to “connect” with their roots. :rolleyes:
The only time it makes sense to use that term with out that imagery associated with it, would be for actual African denizens that have migrated here to the US. And even then, said person could be of any color.
The term in question is “African American” not “Tribal African American” You are rallying against a “tribal association” that doesn’t exist outside of your own mind. It’s quite difficult to understand. AA is a term for a US ethnic group. That’s all. It’s not for Africans (“tribal” or otherwise), Haitians, Cubans, etc.
I’m a little confused myself. When I hear “African-American,” I don’t think of any tribal associations, either. I’m not trying to be PC, either, it’s just not something I associate with the term. If anything, the term “African-American” to me conveys a bit of Southern US culture.
Then what was the impetus for using the phrase AA in the first place? It’s was coined as a call back to their ancestry.
I can still remember back in the 80’s, when this phrase picked up momentum, lots of young black people were shunning their “slave” names in favor of more African ones.
I do not think of African “tribesman” when I think of AA. I think of jazz music, the Harlem Renaissance, African American Vernacular English, and kente cloth. I don’t think of either Africa or “tribesman”. Are you going to tell me, an African American, that I don’t possess the “proper” imagery of “African American”?
I’m not saying your imagery is wrong. But it is a little presumptuous of you to think your limited imagination is universal.
If it seems silly to you, don’t use it. No one is going to force you to. But it does have some utility. And some people prefer it over other terms. Silly or not, these are facts.
I’m not understanding your rolly eyes. I’m not into genealogy myself, but I understand why people try to connect to a culture of origin. Lots of people want to feel like they’re a part of something that’s bigger than themselves.
“African American” has been around for what, 30-something years? It’s deeply entrenched in the lexicon of academia, the media, and everyday communication. Yet, there aren’t a whole bunch of people walking around, scratching their heads in confusion about what the term means. So I’d say the term has plenty of “sense”. It’s only a few people who continue to assert otherwise. Fortunately, most of these people are old and rapidly approaching their expiration dates.
I assume it was to find a non-racial term for this American ethnic group (“Americans who are descended from enslaved Africans”).
And as an ethnic label the nomenclature of AA it is pretty accurate/self explanatory; I, personally, can’t think of a better term for AA’s without over/under generalizing (or using racial terms).
Well, is calling someone White considered offensive? If not, then people can’t judge you at all. Although black people aren’t actually black, white people aren’t white either.
Yes, the guy is black. And he shoul not be ashamed of it. People who judge you are actually being racists because they think being black is bad or something.
It was basically to go along with people who talked about being “Irish-American” or “Italian-American”, IIRC.
(Another white person who never heard anyone say that “black” was offensive, at least in the context the OP was speaking of.)
Monstro, as I’ve said, I’m happy to refer to anybody however they wish.
However, that doesn’t mean I can’t have an opinion on the term itself.
I’ll retract my statement about AA and the image it presents. I guess it’s different for everybody. I was thinking more in terms of ancestry.
You’d get more raised than an eyebrow if you called this American of mixed Irish and southern European descent an “English-Amerian”, Sweet Cheeks.
I may be mistaken, but I believe “black” was originally a negative term for people of primarily or exclusively recent sub-saharan African descent, and used to distinguish such from the more favored “coloreds” of mixed race.
During the '60’s in the US, the term “black” was aggressively adopted by people of POERSSAD to reject the concept that European ancestry was something to take pride in, and lingering race-based classism among PoPOERSSAD.
I like phrases like “people of primarily sub-saharan African descent” and “people of primarily European descent” because it makes bringing race into the conversation awkward. After all, it is usually irrelevant.
Perfect example of the exception.
One of my co-workers “:mad: I am NOT Black, I am a lovely shade of mocha, don’t you dare call me black!”
This would be a good point to inform everyone (As a Creek-Cherokee) that there are plenty of American Indians (Including Wilma Mankiller who was the first female Chief of the Cherokee Nation) who refer to themselves and others as…“Indians”. Just remember that the next time you see some white guy on the internet say, “Indians are from India. You are referring to The First People/Indigenous/Natives…blah blah blah.”
Yes those above terms are also used, but so is…Indian. By some people.
Mark my words. The new initiative by the NFL to issue a 15 yard penalty if the N Word is used on the field will be opposed more by Blacks than Whites.
COUNT on a couple of articles about how “The Man” is trying to take “The Black” out of black folk like David Stern supposedly did in the NBA.
From a UK perspective I obviously don’t use the phrase African-American, but I’m not too fond of ‘Afro-British’ or ‘African-Anglo’ or whatever equivalent you like simply for accuracy’s sake. Many of the people who’d be referred to in this way more identify with the Caribbean homeland of their ancestors in the Empire, then Commonwealth, days than Africa of more distant origin. There’s the term Afro-Carribean, but where’s the acknowledgement of actual citizenship?
‘African’ as synonymous with ‘black’ here is problematic also because there used to be and still are many of South Asian ancestry who inhabited the old Empire territories in Africa.
If you go far back enough, we’re all Afro-something anyway. Maybe in the future we’ll have better terms purely to describe melanin content.
First of it seems to be silly that American black leaders decide to change what they want to called as often as the wind changes direction. Secondly liberals have decided to hyphenate Americans in order to divide us and pit one group against another for the purpose of control. Thirdly why the heck does it matter except for identification? And finally I can name two hot supermodels Candice Swanepoel and Megan McKinzie along with actress Charlize Theron who are African, American and White what pray tell would you call them? I have a good idea. Why don’t we call all of us Americans and stop trying to divide our nation? As a great man once said a house divide by itself can’t stand.
You beat me to it!
I was going to point out the large number of white folks who get that little shiver of righteous political correctness and congratulate themselves every time they use the term “Native American” instead of “Indian” or “American Indian.”
The fact is, preference for this term is far from universal among the group it aims to describe. For one, the late Russell Means, probably the best-known activist for his people, loathed it, and wasn’t shy about saying so.
“Native American” is actually a U.S. government designation for a number of different ethnic groups that have nothing to do with those who were found in what became the continental United States when Europeans first landed here — which is part of why Means rejected it.
He was fine with this group being known as “American Indians.” I’m not sure if any study has been done in recent years to determine the preference of members of the various tribes that constitute this group. When I first became aware of this issue, there were those who preferred one designation, those who preferred the other, and those who didn’t care one way or the other.
The point is, embrace of the term Native American is far from universal among those it’s meant to describe.