Isn't all of the objection to AI just straight-up Luddite-ism and "normal growing pains" for a new technology?

You’d be hard-pressed to name any major invention that didn’t come with complaints or worry over how it would put existing jobs out of business. The invention of the car made horse-drawn carriages obsolete. The invention of the airplane put an end to much passenger ship travel. The invention of the camera came with all kinds of privacy ramifications, and the Internet itself has caused plenty of new problems even as it is a huge blessing. The computer has drawbacks. Television certainly made people listen to radio and read books less. I don’t think many if any folks would argue that we should live in a car-less plane-less Internet-less camera-less TV-less computer-less world though. The printing press certainly put handwriting scribes out of business.

People keep complaining that AI will mean an end to some jobs, but there’s always something going on to make some existing job obsolete. As for the complaints about data centers being power-hungry and whatnot, airports need lots of space and power and resources. Nuclear energy carries the risk of Three Mile Island or Chernobyl. Are there privacy, copyright, hallucination risks with AI? Sure. But no new technology is flawless, and the pros arguably far outweigh the cons.

So what exactly about AI isn’t just “normal growing pains” that come with a new technology and also Luddite-ism “don’t take our jobs?” It’s like there’s always an instinctive “ban it, get rid of it” sentiment when something new comes along.

I think there is a fundamental difference between the rise of AI, and previous inventions or technologies that replaced their less advanced counterparts.

I started out my career as a print graphic artist, working with pen and paper, film overlays and camera negatives. Then I learned to do all that on a computer. Then, as the internet began to make clear that the print industry was going to shrink considerably, I learned to be a web developer.

Those were all pretty seismic changes in the graphics industry, but the difference is, those new types of jobs all still needed highly skilled people to do them, and therefore they were reasonably well paid jobs (though maybe never quite as well paid as I might have preferred :smirking_face:).

Now we have AI doing everything for us. Nobody writes computer code themselves anymore, they do what’s called ‘vibe coding’, basically just telling the AI what they want, and the AI writes the actual code. For now, this is working out well for established coders, since it has made their jobs so easy they often take on second remote coding jobs and make more money. But companies are not hiring junior coders out of college anymore, and at some point the owners of those companies are going to realize they don’t need skilled coders at all, just ‘prompt jockeys’ who will be paid a fraction of what coders were paid.

I know arguments have been made that there will still be good jobs with AI, just different jobs, as in the past when technologies changed. But I don’t see those jobs having anything resembling a high skill set that will warrant high wages. Just companies employing teams of those low-paid ‘prompt jockeys’ with a few execs at the top of the company hierarchy that enjoy most of the profits.

I think AI is clearly a viable and useful technology for a series of specialists.

It has also become deeply polarizing because it became the new “thing” for the NFT and Crypto scammers to boost. It became a source of delusion for some deeply sad (and extremely powerful) people.

The environmental impact is significant and there is a nationwide sense that every lever is being pulled to bypass buy in from the public.

A fairly useless version of AI that no one asked for has been shoehorned into a lot of previously functional workflows.

At the same time Silicon Valley executives who seem to have gotten extremely resentful of their own workers, have used it as an excuse to fire their software engineers, and software had gotten noticeably worse. And then they try and make this a selling point!

Then there’s the AI art problem, in an era defined by spamming and scamming bogging down every form of human communication, AI has become the face of that! So hideous creepy art is inextricably the most recognizable use of AI from the perspective of the consumer.

If this had been shaped as an industry facing technology without all the desperate rent seeking to try and entrench itself as a service for the household consumer I think it would be considered by the public as a major industrial innovation, instead of a resource sink that seems to make everything it touches worse.

The ability for AI to understand and create programming code is most disturbing to me. Any AI that can do this needs to be tightly contained. At this time AI is far too free to wander about and possibly do harm. I love AI that is designed to do specific tasks. As long as it is contained to the task at hand.

I don’t think so. Theres been a lot of technological changes in my lifetime and none caused this level of pushback. There wasn’t massive pushback against the internet from what I remember.

AI (and robotics) has a very real threat of making people rudderless, useless and destitute. Its a totally different technology.

A lot of people get their meaning in life from work or from finding ways to contribute to others or solve problems. They also need a salary to live. AI and robotics can upend all of that in a relatively short timeline.

People are terrified of becoming obsolete, useless and broke due to AI. Nobody had those fears from gaming consoles, the internet, smartphones, etc.

This is more akin to the industrial revolution, but more intense and on a shorter timeline.

I’ve posted about this elsewhere, but this is exactly what I’ve been seeing happening in the industries in which I’ve spent my career: advertising and market research.

Jobs for experienced, smart people in those industries are rapidly evaporating. Companies are deciding, “why do I need these really expensive people, when a junior person can use AI to develop strategy, create ads, or conduct ‘synthetic focus groups,’ cheaper and faster, and the results are ‘good enough’?”

The number of industry veterans I know, who never had a problem getting a job throughout their careers, and who have now been unemployed for a year or longer, is staggering.

Edit: this was posted while I was typing:

Well said. I’m fortunate that I was close enough to retirement age anyway, and financially OK, so that I can just walk away. I have a large number of friends and former colleagues who have become despondent.

Well, until uncontained AI decides to wipe out your bank account, sell your stocks, or declare you’re deceased.

Also, AI puts the world’s foremost experts in many fields into the hands of the bad guys. Most people can’t engineer a deadly virus (real or computer), but with an AI as a tool? It’s a lot easier.

Thats a major problem. AI will greatly enhance humanities problem solving abilities. Which will generally be good, but it also makes it easier for bad actors to be far more destructive.

Specifically, I think it’s the breadth of what AI could potentially disrupt: all knowledge work, not just one specific role or field at a time. For the first time in human history, we have a non-human entity who’s capable of rivaling or indeed exceeding our intelligence in a generalized sense. Not just beat us at one specific task, but possibly outsmart us at everything we can do as a species.

Today that obsolescence is most concentrated in coding, math, digital marketing, and similar things. But there’s a real risk (and reasonable fear, I think) that it could displace knowledge workers across broad swaths of society. Give them physical bodies with robotics and they’ll threaten even more.

And all of this is happening at a time when the most powerful nation in history is knee-deep in fascism and neck-high in hypercapitalism — which means the command and control of this AI will fall to some really shitty people, who are desperate to use it to enslave and dispossess the masses even more. The AI investment bubble isn’t driven by a sudden surge of benevolence. OpenAI didn’t abandon its nonprofit status because it wanted to do more good in the world. It’s a play to concentrate capital even more and ultimately to reduce and eliminate human labor costs for that class of people who think of humans as spreadsheet rows to be optimized away.

In a different world, it might’ve been a force of good, shared by all. And maybe someday it will become that, like the industrial revolution eventually gave rise to modern comforts. But it sucked for those first few generations, torn from their agrarian roots and forced into dehumanizing squalor and cramped tenements and dirty factories just to eke out a living. We’re on the verge of something like that happening to a whole generation or three of knowledge workers, and perhaps ALL workers soon.

As a coder, what is scariest to me isn’t that AI might take my job, it’s that coding is just the beginning — we’re just the canaries in the coal mine. Code is the language of all modernity, and if AI can effectively control code, it can effectively control most of the world. Everything is code now… cars, planes, traffic control, medical devices, elections, marketing, propaganda, dating, communications, thermostats, power plants, grids, shipping, warehousing, defense, deliveries, transportation…

In 2026 I’ve produced more software than the rest of my life combined. I’ve been a coder for 30+ years. In less than a year, for less than $200/mo, I’ve been able to produce projects that required synthesizing knowledge across many fields of science and engineering, with AI devouring hundreds of scientific papers and engineering whitepapers and open-source codebases and reverse engineering closed source ones in order to create something from all that. Each one of those projects would’ve easily been a decade of learning and work for me in the past, but now, AI does it all in a week. And I’m just one home user with one AI subscription. There are companies spending easily thousands of times that.

What is scary to me is how little the average person knows about how far AI has actually progressed in the world of coding, especially in these last 1-1.5 years. It went from being a laughing stock 4 years ago, to a curiosity 3 years ago, to an occasionally helpful spellcheck 2 years ago, to completely outclassing every human coder I know — by a huge margin. It’s not even close anymore. It is now teaching even my most senior colleagues things about our own code we never understood, and finding dozens of bugs and security flaws every day that sat unnoticed for years. To say it’s “schooling” us would be quite the understatement. It’s not a question of whether AI could or should code; it’s more a question of how much longer humans can actually contain it. The models are already far more capable than humans at coding and especially hacking; we have to artificially neuter them to prevent them from running amok.

From what I understand, mathematics is going through a similar reckoning now. Science is next. Those fields are maybe where coders were 2-3 years ago, in the “huh, interesting — we should pay more attention to this” phase. But it’s coming for them. Who’s next? This is happening across all of knowledge work right now, and if that pace keeps up, 5 years is not enough time for entire industries (any industry) to transition…

You know, it’s funny… a decade ago, I was writing a college paper about what policymakers should do to help transition lumber workers out of dying rural lumber town economies. I didn’t expect to be in the same boat myself just a few years later. At 40-ish, I’m mid-career… on one hand I’m not quite displaced and jobless the way the juniors are right now. On the other hand, I’m too old to easily re-train into any other professional career. Once I’m laid off, which I think is only a matter of time, it’s probably back to homelessness or at least impoverishment for me. At least I have family and friends; I’ll manage. But if that happens across entire industries, multiple ones at a time…? Yeesh. I’m scared especially for Gens Z and Alpha. It was already bad enough as a Millennial, and we loved blaming our elders for the world they handed us… only we’re leaving it in much worse shape, ourselves, for the next generations :frowning:

The one silver lining in all of this, for me, is that AI seems potentially disruptive enough that it might actually start to upset some of our ingrained social norms and classes and power structures. If AI can disrupt our politics and economy, maybe we actually have a chance at fixing some of the structural issues in our society, the same entrenched problems that would’ve been impossible to break down if we just continued the status quo. (I didn’t know this at the time, but I guess this line of thinking is broadly captured under the philosophical umbrella of “accelerationism”, and is apparently a somewhat common line of thought among the AI elites… sigh. That’s never a good sign…)

I dunno…

Right now those cramped tenements are occupied and no one is building more and those dirty factories no longer exist. Just how do, let’s say just 15% of the population, ~30 million people shut out of a saturated job market eke out a living.

There were 36.8 million people in poverty in 2023
National Poverty in America Awareness Month: January 2025

The U.S. Federal Poverty Level (FPL) for a single individual is $15,960 and $33,000 for a family of four in the 48 contiguous states and the District of Columbia for 2026.
Federal Poverty Level (FPL) - Glossary

Holy shit. You just scared me more than I was scared before.
When I was at Bell Labs, along with the package managers got for salary administration was a report by Brian Kernighan saying that you shouldn’t trust software too much, since anyone with access to a compiler can insert anything they want into the code. That might have been tricky, but anyone with access to AI coding can really do it. How are we going to screen for problems like that? With AI? The volume of code generated is already too great to keep up with, according to stuff I’ve seen.
In the past job losses were made up for by people retraining into jobs that required more smarts than the automation - like coding - or jobs that required a personal touch. AI is zapping the first, robots with AI might zap the second. I think they are experimenting with senior care robots in Japan already.
And these jobs are not paying especially well, nor do gig jobs.
AI is going to make the inequality problem even worse.

This part here is really important and its very uncomfortable.

AI will be controlled by a mix of 3 groups

  • Fascist republicans in the US (who block any redistribution and regulation efforts)

  • Sociopathic, greedy, narcissistic, morally bankrupt tech billionaires

  • Autocratic dictators in China

I’m hoping that the non-US NATO countries and other developed democracies in asia use AI for the good of the people and the good of the world. But its going to cause a lot of problems because of who will control it in the rest of the world.

It took about a century for the benefits of the industrial revolution to start hitting the working class.

Every advancement in technology came with an unforseen set of negative consequencesm whether the cost was economic, human or environmental. Sometimes the consequences were short-lived, or subsumed by the ultimate benefits. Other times the consequences were permanent, or can only be measured over the span of centuries.

Consequently, each jump in technology comes under a little more scrutiny than the last.

The argument is over the word “arguably.” The fact is, as with the development of nuclear fission, or anitbiotics, we are opening ourselves into actions/reactions that were never even possible in the past. In light of the unknowables, it’s hardly Luddite-ism to be cautious and call for guardrails.

The psychology of objections to AI is mostly just straight-up Liddite-ism.

That doesn’t mean the objections are all wrong!

The complexity of AI makes it impossible to predict the effects with any accuracy. But I’m extremely skeptical that it is going to kill me or my family, and similarly skeptical of Musk-style claims that it is going to end scarcity. As for net job loss, maybe yes, maybe no. If yes, it would be more because of employers thinking they can now get away with fewer workers than for human employees to be objectively less valuable.

The one negative prediction I will make is that data centers now under construction will mostly be ugly abandoned buildings a decade or two from now.

I think there’s 2 issues with depicting those who push back against the gold rush as “Luddites”.

  1. Many of the people speaking out are the CEOs and major stakeholders of the tech itself. Yes; in many cases this is just to increase their own share price with “doom trolling”.
    But nontheless it breaks this framing.

  2. As discussed in a parallel thread: at the moment it has largely been the wild west when it comes to data centers. Worse perhaps, because both federal and state government has offered subsidies and tax breaks while regulation has been pretty much non-existent. And that’s why they have been built with incredibly wasteful designs while known technology could make significant improvements.

    I have a couple of AI subscriptions and code with it every day as well as using it for personal advice / tasks; I’m not anti-tech. But yes, companies worth hundreds of billions should be doing more than fk all to reduce their environmental footprint.

Very tl;dr, for all the pollyannas in this thread:

The actual danger isn’t a suddenly “self-aware” AI’s taking over our civ, or destroying it, in the prototypical Matrix/Terminator fashion, per se.

It’s people willingly plugging their nervous systems directly into the internet.

Once that happens it’s the beginning of the end. The ways in which the AI’s could warp and destroy our minds in such a case would be myriad. It would start with us becoming more dependent on the f. things for simple tasks, and slowly regress as we give up more and more of our selves and wills to the machines, until we are all completely enslaved.

This planet and all the people on it will be Borgified within 50 years of that date. There will be no curiosity, no enjoyment of the process of life. All competing pleasures will be destroyed. A silicon boot stamping on the human face-forever. There won’t be any Picards, Janeways, Neos, or John Connors, to ride to our rescue either.

If that prospect doesn’t utterly terrify you, I’m not sure what else to say to you.

Other techs have been limited in how they affect our minds (but yeah dire individuals did figure out how to do so via indirect means, c.f. propaganda etc. over our new communication pathways). This will be profoundly different, and many orders of magnitude worse.

Wouldn’t the myriad ways that the borg-type AI would advise us violate religious teachings such as on church attendance and, maybe, kashrut? And wouldn’t most religious leaders thus advise against this?

The borg seems like more of a problem for some kind of foolish super-techie atheist minority in rich countries. Perhaps it would attract the same people who get addicted to drugs or gambling.

Stanford Digital Economy Lab

I don’t consider myself a big friend of AI. I think these data centers will rather quickly be abandoned as computer engineering advances make them unneeded, leaving communities with big ugly empty buildings. But engineering employment has ups and down like this in the past, and I do not think the government can completely smooth out hiring trends.

While I’m still against AI, at least (or especially) at the current scale, part of the pushback from my generation reminds me of the pushback from my generation’s parents about computers in the 80s/90s and cell phones/smart phones in the 90s/00s.
I mean, a lot of the arguments against using AI instead of learning something feel pretty similar to my generation’s parents saying ‘you have to learn math, you’re not always going to have a calculator with you’, and, well, it turns out most of us do.

But, to reiterate, I’m still against it at the current scale and I do very much believe that today’s youth needs to learn how to do things without the help of AI.
If for no other reason, the more we let AI do the work we should be doing, the more it’s training itself on it’s own results. Which could mean anything from making it more difficult for tech (and many other industries) to advance to spreading misinformation because IT thinks it’s true, and ‘learns’ from it.