Well, neither would I, but surely you don’t think I was suggesting that the only reason to believe that Jews in Iran are doing okay is because of this one guy’s say-so.
Quoting the man indicates that you view him as a reliable source. In any case, “doing ok” is a relative term. They’re definitely doing better in Iran than in surrounding countries, but imagine living in a place where over half of the people around you believe that you and your kin are responsible for the world’s conflicts (and unlike many other nations, the prevalence of the opinion does not decrease in younger generations). That’s not a situation in which I would like to live, personally.
It is very, very easy to oversell the notion that Jews in Iran are doing OK.
The actual facts are somewhat equivocal.
Iran, unlike many other ME countries, did not expel its Jewish population. Nor does the government engage in anti-Jewish pogroms for their own sake. Nonetheless, 95% of the Jewish population of Iran emigrated (many to Israel), with immigration accelerating after the Iranian Revolution.
The small minority of the population that chose to stay, does so on the express understanding that any agitation against Islamic supremacy or official discrimination, let alone expressions of sympathy for Israel or the outside world, will be met with charges of spying for Israel - leading to a revolutionary show trial. So if asked, they naturally say that the authorities in Iran treat them benevolently and that Israel and the West are bad, bad, bad.
http://archive.adl.org/backgrounders/iranian_jews.html
Therefore, there is no reason to take such statements at face value:
From: Religious Minorities in Iran, Eliz Sanasarian, Cambridge University Press, 2000, page 150.
A rather more telling statistic is the number of Jews actually left in Iran: in 2012, it was down to 8,700 or so. There were around 150,000 after WW2. The remnant exists on sufferance, making it difficult for outsiders to judge their actual condition.
Well, it’s hard for me personally to imagine, but I suspect a lot of Israeli Arabs are quite familiar with it.
Which, if you’ll recall, was the context in which Salvor asked for comparisons with Jewish minorities in “the arab world” (or more broadly, the Middle East in general).
very well said. I’m amazed how at some “progressives” conveniently ignore that and buy Iranian propaganda; the regime that hangs gays, stones adultresses, forces veils, very unprogressive things.
The so called Jews should not even be there.
There has always been true Jews living in Palestine.
The chosen people = the Jews = the people of God, it’s not a race !
The so called Zionist are much like the Nazi’s, only the Nazi’s wanted there own lands back that they lost 20 years before the war and the so called Jews are on about a 2000 year gap :dubious: if not insane.
The Jew lost the Land because God took it from them, they were doing the wrong thing by the God of Israel !
If the Jews did not disobey God they would not of got kicked out of the land of Israel.
Now how can they come back ? and still be disobeying God ?
Jesus Christ is the King of Israel !
The Jews disregarded there neighbours, looking down on them, they were not nice or helpful and never had the keys to deal with them people, only true Christianity has that.
Two wrongs don’t make a right.
This crap about anti-Semitic, the fact is both are Semites.
We hear about all this PC crap of people saying that someone is anti Semitic :o how stupid ! people are anti something about a point on another’s religion, so what ! all people have a right to there own opinion and for big brother PC to come along and dictate that you can’t voice your opinion that’s the madness of just fascist moronic twerps that can’t see past there nose.
I know my family tree back to 1338 and someone comes up to me bagging something about my racial background, most likely I may agree with them on the points that are true or educate them on a point they don’t understand and if they want to be a dolt about something, do you think I could care less, not at all ! it’s like water off a ducks back.
I think it’s people with an inferiority complex that they have problems with it, well that’s just to bad, they just have to suck it up and get on with reality, but they could point out something that they are proud of and even point out what’s not so good with the now of your generation or culture, and that’s all fine with me that they have pride in them self.
PC only works to destroy all culture.
I suspect otherwise. I’m sure most Israelis would blame the Palestinians for their local conflict, but I would be shocked to learn that any but the most right wing would blame them for the world’s problems, which is what the ADL survey indicated. That’s the difference between a political/territorial clash and a more fundamental hatred or disregard.
If that’s not satire, I can’t decide if u sound like a communist, an Islamist, an alt-righter, or all three
Nah, just an old-school fundie Christian Jew hater. It’s refreshing to know that there are still a few of them still out there.
Alt-right, u mean.
What’s the difference?
You got some foamy spittle right there on your chin.
Because they don’t actually want a “Palestinian State.” What they want is for there not to be a Jewish State.
As you point out, Gaza & J & S used to be occupied by Egypt and Jordan. At that time, where was the OUTRAGE that “Palestine” was being occupied by Egypt and Jordan? There was none. In fact, before 1967, the PLO made it clear that they were NOT claiming these areas. Their sights were set on the Jewish controlled areas and only on the Jewish controlled areas.
In any event, the Arabs would never ever accept it. In discussing the one-state solution, people tend to focus on the fact that Arabs would get more of a say in Israeli affairs. But they tend to ignore the fact that Israeli Jews would end up with a majority say in Arab affairs. Which means no more Hamas; no more recognition of “Palestine” at the UN; no more treating of Abbas and his cronies as diplomatic dignitaries; no more anti-Jewish incitement in Arab schools; the millions of dollars in aid to the “Palestinian Authority” would come under direct Israeli control; etc.
I would have to agree. In understanding the conflict, people need to understand that the Palestinian Arabs don’t actually want self-determination and don’t actually want their own state. What they want is for there not to be a Jewish State in the area.
I thought the issue was which minority community was “thriving” in comparison with Israeli Arabs.
Iran isn’t a very good entry as an example of comparative “thriving”.
Population of Iranian Jews in 1948: 150,000
Population now: 8,700
Population of Arabs in what is now Israel, 1948: 156,000 (down from 950,000 before the '48 War)
Population now: 1,413,500
One can see that, despite the '48 War and its disasters, the population of Arabs in Israel is “thriving”, while that of Jews in Iran is not. As of 1948, both populations were of approximately equal size. Today, the population of Arab Israelis is approximately 162 times as large.
It’s funny you should say that because it looks like you are talking to the guy who predicted back in 2011 that Libya would “almost certainly” end up with a “friendly, secular, democratic regime” as a result of the Arab Spring.
Cite:
(Post #58)
That’s not true at all. For example, the original UN Partition Plan was accepted by the Jews and rejected by the Arabs. Since then, the Jews have made numerous peace proposals, all of which have been rejected by the Arabs.
Note also that Israel unilaterally left Gaza. Why would they do that if they wanted the “exact same pieces of land”? The answer is that they do not. Israel just wants to be left alone and the Arabs want there not to be an Israel. One side is willing to compromise and the other is not.
Would you mind defining “Palestinian lands” for me?
i.e.
-
Where are the boundaries of “Palestinian lands”?
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How did those lands come to be “Palestinian lands”?
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If the Arabs successfully ethnically cleanse an area of Jews, does it become “Palestinian Land” forever?
So for example, when the Arabs ethnically cleansed Hebron, eastern Jerusalem, and Gaza City of Jews, did those areas become “Palestinian lands” forever?
Also, is there such thing as “Jewish lands”? If so, where are they?
Its worse then that, hes an Aussie. :eek:
What concessions should the Palestinian Arabs make, in your view?
As I asked in my last post, you need to define the phrase “Palestinian land.” For example, do you consider Hebron to be “Palestinian land”? If so, was it “Palestinian land” before the Jews were ethnically cleansed from it back in the 1930s? Now that Jews have returned to Hebron, is it still “Palestinian land”? Or is it Jewish land now?