National security? There are arab citizens in Israel. Are they national security threats as well or are you saying that he results of a democratic process that included Palestinian votes would threaten national security? Or are you saying that keeping Israel Jewish is a national security issue rather than a Zionist issue.
No, I’m saying that letting 5 million people who hate us and want to kick us out of our homes into the country is a very creditable threat to national security, and frankly, only the most wilfully obtuse would claim otherwise.
Edit: and this is exactly what I was talking about.
The Occupying Power shall not deport or transfer parts of its own civilian population into the territory it occupies.
That could be an argument for annexation, but how can be it an argument for an occupation that isn’t bound by the rules of military occupation?
Well, for one - because the Convention doesn’t apply, on its terms. It only applies in cases where the territory was legitimately owned by a “High Contracting Party” involved in a conflict:
Who is the “High Contracting Party” who legitimately owned the territory in question when the land was seized in 1967? Not Jordan - it seized the WB illegally during the '48 War (and has since disclaimed it); not the British, who handed back their UN Mandate; not Palestine, as that never existed as a country.
The ‘legalistic’ argument against Israel based on the Convention is weak (though the contrary opinion is popular at the UN, to no-one’s surprise).
That doesn’t make the displacement morally right, of course. Just that making this sort of legalistic argument won’t help. The Israelis will never agree to an interpretation that is, on its face, quite wrong.
Jordan. Circa '67, they exercised sovereignty over the region; residents got Jordanian citizenship, elected representatives to Parliament, and so forth. It was de facto Jordanian territory for the purposes of war.
I disagree; and the alternative is too dreadful to tolerate.
Israel interpret things in light of what’s best for Israel, like any other country (see the US’ torture memos, or legal reasoning for why invading Iraq was a-ok). Doesn’t mean the rest of the world has to pretend the Palestinians have no rights.
In my opinion, this would be the “least bad” approach. Let Jordan accept sovereignty over the West Bank. They can govern it as they wish, and accept responsibility for peace-keeping. If they refuse to assimilate the Palestinian population, then the charge of “apartheid” would be on their heads.
However, Jordan is completely uninterested in taking up this burden, and so we’re stuck in the current nightmare of nowhere land.
???
Unfortunately, Israel is now imploding into the direction of authoritarianism or perhaps even fascism with great speed. The Palestinian/Israeli discussion is of course a major trigger of this sad fact; however there is no hope of any solution in the near/mid future.
It is unclear to me if Israel will survive the disease. Let’s hope.
You’re pointing to the exact reason the Israeli government denies what’s going on is an “occupation”.
I would have to disagree, but let me ask you this:
Do you hope that Israel’s governance does not become more like that of other countries in the Middle East? Or is your great CONCERN mainly focused on Israel?
I take it you have the same CONCERNS about Israel’s neighbors?
Sorry, at this point I care a lot more about Israel than the neighbors. The governance of the other countries in the ME is mostly chaotic now.
I’ve given multiple cites in my timeline summary. If you don’t want to believe them that’s on you, not me.
I harp on Israelis stealing land not only because it’s immoral and illegal but because it is proof that the Israeli government is oppressive regarding West Bank Palestinians. Jimmy Carter, someone who probably understands both sides as well as any, has explicitly likened it to apartheid. Even if it doesn’t solve the conflict it must end because it is a basic human rights issue. I believe that peace will never be possible while Israel is oppressing Palestinians.
But it’s okay for Palestinians to oppress Israelis?
Proudly declaring that you intend to kill all your Israeli neighbors is okay?
Don’t you realize that the constitution of Hamas says Israel must be obliterated by Muslims?
Hamas Charter - Wikipedia
don’t bother; the far-left and the Islamists/sympathizers always have their excuses of “colonial imperialism,” etc. straight out of Lenin’s “Imperialism: The Highest Form of Capitalism” playbook.
While I have great respect for Carter, I’ve never been able to accept that comparison. Apartheid was the segregation and discrimination against a nation’s own citizens. Israel segregates and perhaps discriminates against non-citizens. The comparison is not apt.
Israel’s treatment of the Palestinians in the occupied West Bank has enough sins to be responsible for. It isn’t fair to make up a sin that simply is not applicable. Stealing farms and groves from Palestinian farmers to expand settlements is a grievous sin. “Apartheid” isn’t a valid comparison.
(There are accusations that Israel mistreats Israeli citizens of Arabic descent, and, while there may be discrimination there, that, also, fails to rise to the level of “apartheid.”)
Would you please stop that kind of crap? We’re trying to have a mature conversation here, and straw-man attacks of this nature are not helpful. Again, thou ain’t helping.
Don’t compare us to them, OK?
I have no problem when people hold Israel to a higher standard than its neighbors. In fact, I’m offended when they don’t.
It’s nice to know how CONCERNED you are for Israel; so many of Israel’s critics just want to express their deep CONCERN. :rolleyes:
Just tell me the number of the post where you did so. Should be extremely easy.
Also, please answer my questions from before:
What are some of the “many concessions” required of the Palestinian Arabs?
Also, do you agree that the Palestinian Arabs must unilaterally stop their illegal actions, e.g. the rocketing attacks against civilians, the use of human shields, attempting to steal Jewish land, etc.?
That may be sensible for a lot of purposes, but the thing is that a lot of criticism of Israel is disguised as CONCERN. If someone is just deeply CONCERNED about Israel then, assuming they are not Israeli (or otherwise connected to the country), they ought to be CONCERNED about other countries too, including Israel’s neighbors.