or if you are less full of the racial animus, you would see that those visible ethnic minorities will naturally have some sympathy to the Palestinian situation from seeing analogy to their challenges
but since you are indeed full of the racial animus, we get the fantasy - strange discourses and factually incorrect rambles.
I don’t think insults are called for.
And I don’t buy into the communist lie of “intersectionality;” we could spin anything in the world to fit some narrative. Fact is there is zero anology to the situation of blacks/hispanics in America, and Palestinians who blow themselves up to kill Jews, and have attacked the Jews in the region since the British Mandatory period.
To you, maybe, but you have to accept that some people see things differently. Even if you think they’re wrong. If someone sees an analogy, then that’s what they see.
What do the communists have to do with this subject? Besides your strange obsession with seeing communists behind all your racial and your ethnic animuses?
Leaving aside the addition of the suicide bombing (and your very strange and silly lie about ‘since the Mandate period’), for the purely prejudicial purposes, rather obviously some significant percentage of the actual members of these minorities see things differently with respect to the total Palestinian experience.
No accusations of lying against other posters, Ramira. You should know that.
Warning issued. Please don’t do it again.
i forget that we must make the double language without difference, and continue to play games, but of course the facts of the situation easily found about suicide attacks by any Palestinians are easily found on the wikipedia,, but false assertion as pretended ignorance is happily spread just so long as it is not called by its name.
Ramira, I like you, but you have to dial it back a bit. If someone is talking out of their ass, don’t say they’re “liars” or “idiots”, even if they obviously are; just say that they’re wrong or mistaken and let the facts speak for themselves. It may not make sense to you, but that’s just how this board works.
It’s entirely possible to support Israel while still recognizing that some Palestinians have valid concerns and complaints. Some Palestinians are violent assholes and killers while some are decent people looking for opportunity and peace.
Supporting Israel doesn’t mean that one can’t have sympathy for the plight of people with little economic opportunity and no political rights.
That concept, while it might have some appeal to Communists, was not thought up by Communists, but by feminists.
and me too Alessan…
but I admit I was wrong, I have read more closely Derek’s statement and it is a badly joined AND and so he was not making the factual misrepresentation I thought he was.
**So I apologize to Derek without reservation to him for that bit of frustration and the mistaken reading of his writing **
Not that I think the victorian tea room rules of the discussion have any rational basis.
Yes.
It even possible as a Maghrebine muslim to see the arab states as having made grave errors and sins in the past on the subject of both the israel and their jewish minorities, and feel that it is now time to stop the arguing over the broken eggs and figure out a way to leave peacefully with an omelet of those eggs. That omelet is the Israel - accepting this does not mean approving of the behavior of a certain frange of the Israeli political sphere and the Settler actions.
My general sentiment is that I find much of the Conservative Israeli attitudes distasteful and vulgar. One time A conservative jewish host I listen to (Michael Medved) had a guest from Israel on and the guest let it slip what he really wanted. He said let the palestinians live in neighboring arab lands, they don’t need to live in Israel proper for their own homeland, it highlighted a spotlight on a REAL feeling from the right in Israel of a sort of jewish manifest destiny based on religious/ethnic basis, which I find INTRINSICALLY inferior to models of nationhood and a people that are less concerned with ones theology and race. The US model is conceptually superior in my eyes, it’s one area I think we have a higher ideal for being an American.
All that said, I find the Palestinians infinitely worse. The biggest reason for the outsized animus towards Israel vs the other arab nations around Israel is that Israel is controlled by JEWS, and Islam HATES jews. They were attacked by 5 arab nations after its creation, and continued offers of peace and land swaps are met with rocket fire and declarations of an end to Israel as a Jewish state. I don’t even think a Jewish state is some great ideal, but in the arab world, anything but that would essentially destroy the Jews ability to live and thrive at all, as it has with jewish and christian minorities in muslim majority nations around the the world.
For every Palestinian that cares more about life and prosperity and a future for their children, there seem to be as much or more in terms of the power exerted who want nothing but the destruction of Israel and the wiping out of those people in the region, they don’t want two states, they want ONE palestinian state.
The left ignores all these last points, pretends the DEAL BREAKING animus there does not exist. If the Palestinians were smart, they would end the violence and rocket attacks, they would change the hamas charter or remove hamas from power, and peacefully protest for peace. This would weaken the hard liners within Israel and give them the moral high ground, not JUST to the fool leftists in the UN and Europe and around the world who champion the death cultist Palestinians in trying to sanction ISrael for defending itself with a bigger stick, but people like me, who REFUSES to grade the poor wittle minority arab/muslim/non western palestinians on a curve and subject them to standards LOWER than a liberals DOG in the US.
I think that’s because we are selective in who comes over, more of the cream of the crop and in smaller numbers. I suspect there would be far more issues with our muslim population if we had higher numbers that were allowed to ghettoize.
well said; that’s precisely why I oppose mass Muslim refugee numbers and most polls showed Americans largely did too when this came up; plus, as British Labour Party has shown, this country would become much more dangerous for Jews as well.
Ok, Ramira doesn’t particularly care for me and doesn’t express herself as well as she could, but that’s largely because English isn’t her first language.
I know how she put it came across as quite obnoxious, but while sadly far too many Middle Eastern Muslims may venerate suicide bombers and view those who do so as a “Shahid”(martyr) which is just about the best thing you can call someone in Arabic, but at the same time, I’m not sure it’s possible for non-Muslims to appreciate just how noxious it is to suggest that such an attitude has been common since “the mandatory period”(Meaning the 1930s and earlier).
When the Ayatollah Khomeini set up the Basij units during the Iran-Iraq War and gave plastic keys to teenagers(at least one of whom may have included a member of my own family) to guarantee themselves entry into heaven after acting as human mine dectors, what he did was extremely controversial amongst most Shia and condemned by the vast majority of Sunni. It only became acceptable among a minority of Arabs after some Shia in Lebanese chose to endorse it following Israel’s invasion of Lebanon.
I don’t want to make presumptions since you and I have never met IRL though I have a huge amount of respect for you and hopefully there is a certain amount of reciprocation, but were we ever to meet an I casually said, without a trace of hesitation “Most Jews have no problem with racially segregated schooling or requiring all people to carry ID cards identifying their nationality” your response would be anger. I bring that up because almost since it’s conception such has been the law of the land in Israel without a peep having been heard from most American Jews.
It’s also worth noting most moderate Israelis, including I suspect Alessan, would argue that what I just said was factually accurate but misleading.
I’d say cut her a break particularly since unlike me, English isn’t her first language.
And I would agree. This is a state that has had at best an uneasy state of peace for, what, 70 years, surrounded by states whose avowed purpose is to destroy them? I don’t condone their approach sometimes; I think the crowd-for-an-eye thing is way over the top, and I really don’t like Bibi. But I get where they’re coming from.
Nobody’s clean here. Hamas wasn’t a response to Israeli atrocities, it was a response to Israel.
omg, guys, this is a celebrity, he’s on the John Batchelor show!
wow, so it looks like the Democrats might cave to Bernie and his fringe-left on this issue. And yes, platform matters.
There are still moderate Democrats left, who believe in protecting the environment, protecting abortion rights, being for LGB rights, but don’t buy into some of the stranger and more academic parts of the left, particularly foreign policy. Great move for the general, especially on an issue with such broad consensus that one can easily say “America is a pro-Israel Nation,” and yes, real Americans sympathize more with Israel than the Palestinians.
Sure glad you’re the arbiter of who ‘real Americans’ are.
because anyone who condones SAVAGERY, aka suicide bombings (which is pure depravity given how suicide bombers not only cannot face repercussions but have families who think they’re macking 72 virgins), murdering Olympic athletes, hijacking planes, for a people who don’t believe in free market democracy, civil and personal freedoms, independent press and judiciary, clearly has no regard for American values. Israel is the only Middle Eastern country which shares them.
There is a grey area that you’re unwilling to admit exists. But it really does. There are some (some, not all) decent Palestinians that have been mistreated. That doesn’t mean that savagery is condoned, or Israel disrespected.
