What Davidson said. I know that if some fuckers tried anything on any flight I happened to be on, knives, guns or not, I’d be taking at least one of them with me.
We will find them, we will arrest them and we will fucking do all the bad things to them within the limit of the law. Or, hopefully, the civilians will get ahold of them. I think that would be better.
astro - My best guess would be that they’re trying to finish what they started. The ABC news link doesn’t say what time their tickets were for, just the date of Sept 11. So their flight got grounded before they could do the “work” of Allah. (Hopefully, by quotating work, I make clear that I don’t believe this would actually be the intent of Allah.)
So they’re going to keep trying. Maybe they have a timeline. (I almost said deadline. Ugh, that would have been poor taste.)
Man, that sounds depressing.
The next big fear for me is round two. Car bombs scattered around the US and/or Europe.
I am heartened to see that if this is confirmed, they are using the previous modus operendi, and it isn’t working now that the alarm has been sounded. I also second the boards, that any hijacking now would face passengers in complete revolt as it is now clear kill or be killed.
to think that they were in and around NYC to witness the tragedy, if they are indeed involved with the hijackers.
I do have small consolation though, in how they were able to witness the responses that were displayed nation…no WORLDwide to this act of war.
It would be foolish to have believed that there were only 4 men involved in this on American soil. Who knows how many more there are, and were they are? What are their intentions? Were they attempting to get out of Dodge, or were they going for broke? But I’ll bet that what they were doing was following orders, like all good soldiers, no matter what organization they have volunteered their services to. They are not draftees.
let me correct that to say “men enough to hijack 4 planes” rather than “4 men”
Oh, as much as I don’t want to believe it, I don’t think we’re done through the dark night yet 
The fact that two more “crews” were picked up tonight and caused the NY airports to be shut down, leads me to believe it’s gonna get a bit worse before it gets better.
As a friend of mine and me were discussing earlier on today, it’s been stated several times that there are probably LOADS of these terrorist cells in the US. Add to that the last number of feds that are investigating the events of Tuesday is around 7000 (I think that’s how many agents CNN said were investingating). And that equals a whole lotta heat comin’ down on these people’s heads.
What’s gonna happen when they start seeing their accomplices picked up? What if they decide that they don’t want to be arrested, and would rather be made a martyr? I mean, they’re already willing to die, so they may just decide to load a car up and - BOOM.
THIS is what i’m afraid may happen in the next week or two. Plus we don’t know how many other “teams” are out there that are waiting or watching for a way to get ahold of another airplane.
Actually, I’m GLAD the major sports have cancelled for at least the weekend. Gives the Feds more time to do their roundups, and gives the cowards that are doing this stuff less attractive targets (no major stadium filled due to playoffs etc etc.)
BUT I will say this. Will I cower and be afraid? Nope. I have chosen NOT to live in fear. And I refuse to let these cowards win.
In this instance, may I suggest that we allow one of our new alliance partners the pleasure of interrogating the idiots? Perhaps the Russians or the Israelis?
Now the FBI has people to question. It will be much easier to make the links back to big rats and then (to continue the metaphor) the cat will be out of the bag.
If they are really trying to do the exact same thing, this soon after the first attack, it really is so stupid as to be almost unbelievable.
While we certainly can’t rule out a “second wave” in whatever form, bear in mind that after Pearl Harbor people all over Hawaii were shooting “Japanese paratroopers”–i.e., the neighbors, the neighbors’ dog, and the neighbors’ rose bushes when the wind made them rustle–for days. This story about people trying it all again (with the same M.O.) seems to be pretty widely reported now, but it may yet wind up evaporating as more facts come in.
(And yes, I know I said in a different thread that we shouldn’t try to use “logic” on all this when we don’t have any facts…)
I continue to maintain my policy of vigorous retribution towards whomever is responsible. Veb has made the most important point here. We now have a solid trail provided by these new arrestees. However good their cell system is, we will unravel it.
I have already stated my willingness to make an exception to the rules of torture in this case and I am sorely tempted to reiterrate it here. With these terrorists, we are dealing with an entirely alien form of consciousness. Maniacal determination is anathema to reason and our culture is a reasoning one. It is because of this that we may have to consider extremely unorthodox methods in order to incapacitate such a virulent strain of criminal.
As stated in my own “Revised Hijacking Protocol” thread in Great Debates, hijackers should be summarily executed during any onboard attempt in flight. This new level of what used to be over-reaction may prove all that is effective in stopping this wave of evil. The hyper-violence involved is akin to a coral snake’s bite. If bitten and unassisted, the advice is to immediately amputate the bitten limb to avoid immediate death.
These terrorists have brought us to this a similar decision gate. Amputation from the world community (or decimation) of a society that can breed such elements (including the threat of future action on a similar scale) will serve as a stark reminder that atrocity will be met with overwhelming retaliation. At this point, I have no problem with advocating the outright military takeover of all Taliban governments in order to reduce their ability to participate further in this malignant plot.
I have to agree with most of the comments expressed here. Yes, of course I’m glad the feebies caught some of the bad guys. No, I don’t think that’s the end of it. Cheney in Camp David? Reagan Int’l Airport shut down, according to the news, for an indefinite period of time? Security perimeter enlarged around the White House? Osama bin Laden controls terrorist cells in 34 countries? The Afghan government in hiding, rather than turn ObL over to the U.S.?
Makes me think we’re in for the long haul. And I disagree with those who think this second group of kamikaze terrorists, assuming that’s what they are, are group ‘B’. This group had pilot i.d., Delta Airline uniforms, and weapons. Sounds like group ‘A’ to me. We all know what happens if they get good, or lucky, or both.
I’m afraid we just got lucky today. Do we have time to get good?
If there is a nugget of good news in here, it’s the knowledge that these guys are complete fricking morons. A determined, well-funded, intelligent group of terrorists is terrifying. A group this stupid is marginally less so.
I agree. I think one result of this attack will be that hijackers will have to be very afraid of the people on the plane they try and hijack.
As per those idiots trying again, Good! May they be the huge source of information on the )(@Q*#% that did this hateful act.
The fact that they didn’t coordinate their attacks to be simultaneous shows that they’re idiots. Didn’t they realize that all planes would be grounded as soon as the second plane hit the WTC?
I’m with MEBuckner here. It doesn’t seem believable. It’s kind of like the car they found with the Koran and airline training manuals. Tuesday’s attack was incredibly well planned and thought out very intelligently. The fact that they would go from that to this just doesn’t sound right. I suppose we’ll find out soon enough.
I would remind everyone that earlier today it was announced five firefighters were rescued from under the rubble. That was false. On Tuesday many bomb attacks were reported that turned out to be - well, I don’t know what they were, since they weren’t bombs.
So this MAY be a “Japanese Paratrooper” story.
On the other hand, if it’s not, it simply proves that the civilized world is under attack, and we must react with a forceful alacrity not seen since World War II.
Air strikes are a cop-out. They’re cowardly. We tried to stop the horror in Yugoslavia six years too late and 15,000 feet too high; we ended up killing a great many innocent civilians and damn few war criminals. No, it’s time to stop shooting blindly from miles away, and it’s time to put in some elbow grease, and get down to the grim work of really, genuinely, killing our enemies.
The terrorists must be hunted down and killed, and their allies must be hunted down and killed, and those who harbor them must be hunted down and killed, and their paymasters must be hunted down and killed, and their associates must be hunted down and killed, and their superiors must be hunted down and killed, and the quislings in state governments who assist them must be hunted down and killed. Any country that gives haven and support to them must be subjected to the full weight of our just fury such that no country would ever dare do it again. We must stop at nothing until we have killed them all. And as these vermin continue to crawl out from under their rocks, we must continue killing them, and we must remain prepared and ready, disposed of the resources and the personnel and structure, to kill them.
Frankly, we’ve been asleep far too long. Just as piracy was in the 16th and 17th and 18th centuries, terrorism has been allowed to mushroom out of control for reasons of political expedience, shortsightedness, greed, indifference, and stupidity. The only difference between September 11 and the myriad of the attacks that came before it was the relatively amazing success of their wicked plans. The civilized nations of the world should have acted thirty years ago, but we were fools. Now it’s time to fight them at every opportunity. We must bomb them, assassinate their leaders, turn them on each other with deception and lies, boobytrap their homes, raid their offices, turn their people against them, kidnap them, and bully their pseudo-states into working against them.
And the world’s free states must be open and honest. They must publicly devote more resources to anti-terrorism and intelligence and special forces training and international law enforcement, and they must devote time and energy and cash into helping the poor and the downtrodden so that they can ejoy the things we have and turn away from the scum who exploit them for reasons of hate, and they must publicly state, again and again, that they do this because we are at war. They must change policy in an open and honest manner to reflect a brutal and uncompromising approach. They must publicly celebrate the killing of our enemies as military victories. Put up posters. Hand out medals. Sell War Bonds. Stop at nothing. Kill them all.
Could be just separate, tag-along wannabes but it stretches the limits of crediblity that a separate bunch of extremist sociopaths just happen to show up with johnny-on-the-spot flying credentials, etc. all ready to reprise the Tuesday atrocities. Some pundit said the planning, training, infiltrating took about 2 years. A coincidental reprise, 2 days later? It takes time, planning, organization and deep pockets to lay the groundwork.
Nah.
Sounds more like robotic fanaticism to me. I could be wrong; actually, it happens with distressing frequency.
The devastation they wrought doesn’t make them invincible or even particularly insightful–just clever and vicious. I suspect they just royally fucked themselves. Global fury is nearly unanimous. By being captured alive they may just have lit the fuse right back under their protectors’ asses.
Veb
It could have just been delayed. Airlines haven’t had a great record of being on time these days. Trying again today certainly demonstrates they weren’t the sharpest knives in the drawer though.
Been watching ABC for the last couple of hours and here are some details:
[li]There is news footage of the police taking several individuals into custody and putting them into squad cars.[/li][li]There have been several live testimonials from passengers on one of the flights who were on the tarmac with said individuals in the plane when the SWAT teams stormed the plane and grabbed the individuals[/li][li]The reason they were able to identify some of them was that they went to the same flying school as the terrorists from Tuesday[/li][li]At least some of the individuals were carrying bags marked Crew as well as fake IDs and/or pilot/airport credentials. This includes several women allegedly masquerading as flight attendants.[/li][li]Others were allegedly singled out because of their knives, because they fled, and because a dog or x-ray detected something. The individuals taken on the plane were reported to have resisted.[/li]
One report said a machine designed to detect explosive materials/residue registered on a bag. When asked “Is there a bomb in this bag?”, the individual reportedly said “I wish there was a bomb in there.” All of this, if true, seems to reinforce how they’re fanatically motivated, incredibly stupid, or some mix of the two.
We know for sure that La Guardia and JFK are both closed again, now. And it’s just started to rain in NY. <sigh>
I’ve heard that Russian intelligence has advised the CIA of a potential suicide bombing attempt at a nuclear power plant in the next few weeks.:mad: