Let’s pretend for a moment that your sister died. Now, what was the question again?
No studies here, but anecdotal “evidence” – I know of 2 sets of mixed orientation identical twins.
Dob, that’s a load of nonsense. You don’t understand that being gay doesn’t mean one is involved in gay sex. You can never have sex in your entire life, and still be as gay as gay can be. Homosexuality is a state of being, not an action.
And if being attracted to the same gender is how we are programmed, why is it wrong for us to act on that? It’s not destructive in and of itself, to ourselves or to others. Quaint nonsensical notions of a sky monster who will kill you for being “sinful” aside, there’s no reason for anyone to believe homosexuals are naturally any less moral than heterosexuals. Aside from bigotry, which is generally found amongst followers of the afore mentioned sky monster.
IMO, one would have to be bisexual to think homosexuality could be a choice. Men who get boners from both men and women, and choose which ones to act on purely out of what they consider ‘morality’ are bisexual. Hetero men do not get erections from other men, and I assume Homo men do not get erections from women. There’s no choice to make if you’re entirely one or the other.
Well, to be fair, having sex or not, having relationships or ot is a choice. It’s not an unimportant choice, neccesarily, but still a choice.
Dob, by that argument heterosexuality is a choice, since you do after all to act on your desires.
The statement of the OP was “homosexuality is not a choice” I merely pointed out that I thought it was. I did not make a judgment on that choice one way or another.
I agree 100%! I dont have to act on my desires at all. But when I do act on my desires I dont claim that “I had no choice”. Of course I did!! Would my life be miserable if I didnt? Heck yea! But that doesnt make it any less of a conscious choice on my part. I can either choose to act on my desires and be happy, or not act, and be miserable. Still a choice tho.
I never said it was wrong. I just said the choice to act is just that, a CHOICE. Im not passing judgment on choosing, just acknowledging the fact that it is a conscious choice and there by something you could control…the act I mean.
Again, be as gay or as straight as you want to be I could care less either way…but I still think it is a choice.
Yes, as a gay man, I have a choice.
I can either choose to pursue a loving relationship with someone who I have an attraction to, and have someone to come home to each night, like all heterosexual people strive to do, OR I can choose to be with someone who does not sexually stimulate me in any way whatsoever and be miserable, OR, I can choose to be alone and miserable my entire life, not having an opportunity to share my life with someone I care deeply for.
Which would you choose?
So, you choose to be straight but could easily be gay if you want to.
(By saying it is a choice, you are passing judgement.)
No, he’s saying that he chooses to have sex with members of the opposite sex but could choose to have sex with members of the same sex if he wanted to. (he also didn’t say it could happen “easily”)
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The question was to him.
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I never implied ease.
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Your point of posting was what, exactly?
Being gay is not **acting **on those feelings, it’s **having ** those feelings. If I were celebate, I’d still be gay. And most men who have sex with other men in prison are not gay. So it’s not what you do, it’s what you are. Of course, you have a choice whether to act on those feelings, but you don’t have a choice about having them.
If I had ever “chosen” to be gay, I’m fairly confident that I would remember having made that decision. I remember making all the other major choices in my life, so why wouldn’t I remember that one?
I chose my home, my career, my friends, my car. But the difference is that if I had to, I could have made different choices in these areas, and still be fundamentally the same person. With sexual orientation, I can’t even conceive of being straight.
I didn’t choose to be a human being either. But that doesn’t make me a “slave … hiding behind my genes.” I love the fact that I’m human, and I love the fact that I’m gay.
But the fact is: it doesn’t matter whether I chose it. If I had, it really wouldn’t change anything. I have the right to be the person I am, regardless.
I think we’re all in agreement that even if being gay WAS a choice, it wouldn’t matter, it still isn’t anything that’s hurting anyone.
Yes, it was
Yes, you did, by summing up his post as shown below (bolding mine)
To point out that your summary seems to have misrepresented his stance on this position.
I’m gay and celibate. This is of course, by choice. Not my choice, though. It’s the choice of the people I hit on.
So, there was no point, and you were taking it upon yourself to respond to something that has nothing to do with you.
You’re amazing all right.
But its only not. it’s only a choice in your twisted worldview because you have redefined what homosexuality is by making it something one does, making it an action. That is not what homosexuality is. Homosexuality is a state of being gay. It requires no action, and no action can alter it. You cannot choose to be gay. You may be able to choose to engage in gay behavior, but that is not the same as “choosing to be homosexual.”
You imply that anyone could choose to “be gay” or “straight” by your definition (the actions one does) at whim. I, for one, can attest that that is horse manure. I could never, for instance “be straight” by having straight sex. I couldn’t do it. I’ve tried. It doesn’t work. Why? Because I am gay, no matter what choices I try to make to change that.
Because being gay is a state of existence, not an action.
Captain Amazing replied on this one and I agree. I wasnt passing judgement…you just think I am.
Well I think thats a bit harsh! Simply because I belive something you dont hardly makes me, or my worldview, twisted!! Now alot of the other things I do, may make me twisted, but thats not the point.
Im sorry to have upset some of you here…but my view has not changed. I dont believe in Fate, and I dont belive we have NO CHOICE in who or what we are. Life is choice. You can try and pretty it up all you want to but in the end it comes down to what someone consciously chosing.
I have no choice regarding what gender I am. I have no choice what color my hair is. I have no choice what color my eyes are. I have no choice what my sexual orientation is. I can go against what nature has imposed on me in all of these areas. I can pretend to be blond, pretend to have green eyes. I would still have brown eyes and hair. I could pretend to be a woman, and even have such an operation to make a more complete pretense. But I would still be genetically male. I could not have sex, I could have sex with women, I could tell myself that I’m not gay. I would still be gay.
That is reality. You do not choose the traits that you are born with.
So you’re saying that you chose to be a human and born of your parents and chose your physical characteristics? Life is about choices, yes, but some things are out of our control.
Someone consciously choosing what? Sexual orientation?
First of all, I apologize if this post has typos…I’ve sprained my wrists and they’re bandaged, making typing difficult.
Now, in the words of the Sophist Protagorus, “I am a man, nothing human is alien to me.” If you post on a public message board, you run the risk of other people actually commenting on what you say. If you’d prefer a private conversation with someone, there’s always the wonder of e-mail or instant messaging, where you can carry on long conversations with someone undisturbed by other’s comments.
And secondly, if you read my post, you’d see I did have a point. Dob was saying that a person has a choice as to his or her sexual activity. A person can choose to have sex with someone of a different gender, the same gender, or not to have sex. You were bringing up sexual orientation, asking if he could choose who he was attracted to.
Of course, these are different issues. A person can have sex with someone he or she is not attracted to, and a person can be attracted to someone without having sex.