It wasn’t a coup

[Monty]

@rboyce

I hope the FBI and local police understand this. I would not object to pardons for most of them. Those who used this for devious purposes need to be charge for their crime.

I don’t care why those idiots believed the lies. Well, actually, I kind of do. They believed the lies from Tan the Conman and other elephant party jerks because it fits their bigoted narrative. Who gives a fuck those traitors believed their treason was the right thing. Listen to them, instead of excusing their behavior. The right thing, as far as they are concerned is jettisoning our entire system of government so their hero, the bigot-in-chief, can stay in office.

Fuck that nonsense and fuck pardoning them.

[Snowboarder_Bo]

@Monty

Fuck that nonsense and fuck pardoning them.

Well said!

[Monty]

@ASL_v2.0

On another board I participate in, made up primarily of current or former naval officers and skewing quite a bit more conservative, that’s the turn the thread on this subject has taken. A good chunk of them (about half, maybe a little more) are seriously arguing that the primary take away for us as a nation following this event should be to make it harder to vote. Perhaps by requiring some sort of citizenship exam for all would-be voters, perhaps by requiring in-person voting with paper ballots and mandatory ID requirements.

They failed history, huh?

[Czarcasm]

I’m open to forgiving those who

1. Seek forgiveness and
2. Make a sincere effort to correct what they did.

Pardoning the insurrectionists now would be the same as officially condoning what they did…and what they are continuing to do.

[TokyoBayer]

The New York Times has an article

Before the Capitol Riot, Calls for Cash and Talk of Revolution

A network of far-right agitators across the country spent weeks organizing and raising money for a mass action to overturn President Trump’s election loss.

How is this anything but an attempted coup?

I don’t see things changing after Biden becomes president. I don’t see how it’s possible to govern America anymore. Things are not going to go back to how they were before. The genie is out of the bottle. The horse has left the barn.

What will happen now?

[Stranger_On_A_Train]

@ASL_v2.0

Not surprisingly, a good number of these same board members also think Heinlein was on to something with Starship Troopers (military service as a prerequisite for citizenship), and they can’t see how such a system could ever turn out wrong.

A lot of people venerate Heinlein (as I did in my younger days) but while his hyper-individualistic libertarian philosophy sounds good in concept it doesn’t seem to work out as well in practice. Heinlein frequently opined that an unconstrained democracy would result in the population granting themselves “Bread & Circuses” until the money ran out, but what we’ve seen since the deregulation of the 'Eighties and 'Nineties is large corporations using their power and influence to get government handouts in the form of tax relief, subsidies, and outright bailouts while focusing on maximizing profits over concern for any public interest or health impacts. It seems the greater threat to the public purse isn’t poor people looking for a ‘handout’ in the form of a livable minimum wage or basic health care but billionaires and boardrooms feeding from the trough of government spending and protections.

As for the loss of faith in the electoral process, that is the fig leaf that conservatives are using to cover for the sour grapes of appealing to an ever-shrinking demographic. Both political parties have engaged in gerrymandering and other shenanigans over the years but it was the Republican-dominated state legislatures that turned it into a veritable art form of drawing district lines so tenuous and absurd that they don’t conform to any illusion of fairness or balance. As for any electoral fraud, the process has become so under the media spotlight and transparent since 2000 that it is patently impossible for any kind of large scale fraud to occur…unless, of course, it involves a senior executive calling election officials and secretaries of state and telling them to ‘find’ sufficient votes to justify a win. This isn’t even about partisanship, at this point; of course you want your team to win, but part of playing the game is graciously accepting a loss and regrouping to find a better strategy next go-around.

These people feel so entitled to be in control they can’t even conceive of accepting defeat or taking responsibility for why they lost, and are intent on punishing everyone else for their failures. Trump isn’t the cause of this, but he is the carnival mirror reflection of their self-victimhood and infantile insistence that they world be how they want it to be instead of how it is. “If we could just exclude those people…” is exactly the way a nation becomes divided and becomes just fine with sticking people in concentration camps based on color, creed, or because they’re just different.

Stranger

[ASL_v2.0]

@Monty

They failed history, huh?

A point has certainly been made that given their apparent ignorance of how we got to where we are and where we were before (knowledge of topics such as history, civics, government, etc) suggests that any test I or some likeminded individual may devise (as a prerequisite for voting) is probably one they’d fail. Ironic.

[Ann_Hedonia]

Maybe before we allow someone to swear an oath to protect and defend the Constitution of the United States, we should make sure they know what it is.

Because the Arizona Republican Party sure doesn’t.

Cindy McCain on Arizona GOP move to censure: 'It's time' Republicans 'get...

Here is the text of the censure. In addition to the general idiocy, illiteracy and sheer nastiness, notice how they seem to think “the Constitution”means “Republicans are always right”

Resolution to Censure Cindy Hensley McCain:

“Whereas Cindy McCain, the wife of the late Arizona US Senator John McCain, has been a troubled individual, with a past riddled with drug abuse and illegalities associated with such behavior;”

“Whereas Cindy McCain has supported leftist causes such as gay marriage, growth of the administrative state, and others that run counter to Republican values, a Republican form of government, and the US Constitution;”

“Whereas Cindy McCain has failed to support Conservative Republican candidates such as President Trump;”

Whereas Cindy McCain has supported globalist policies and candidates, including Democrats such as Joe Biden, in direct opposition to Republican values, the interests of the America people, and the Constitution of the United States;"

“Whereas Cindy McCain has condemned President Trump for his criticism of her husband and erroneously placed behaviors over actual presidential results;”

“Whereas, President Trump was truthful in his criticism of Senator McCain, who has become known for serious wrongdoing during his military service, and his service as US Senator, thereby making Cindy McCain’s condemnation of President Trump unjustified.”

“Now, therefore, be it Resolved, that the Arizona Republican Party members meeting at their January 23, 2020 Mandatory Meeting in Phoenix, Arizona, hereby object to Cindy McCain being a member of the Republican Party and officially censure her;

“Further, the Republican Party in the State of Arizona agrees to dissolve in perpetuity any connections whatsoever to Cindy McCain and any of her family members who have supported her views and actions.”

[Stranger_On_A_Train]

That is probably a relief to Cindy McCain, insofar as she ever had any intent of supporting what has become the Republican party.

What a petty, puerile, infantine matter to waste their time focusing on.

Stranger

[Babale]

what the actual fuck is wrong with those people? And then they have the balls to call the left a “circular firing squad”?

[Bookkeeper]

@ASL_v2.0

Not surprisingly, a good number of these same board members also think Heinlein was on to something with Starship Troopers (military service as a prerequisite for citizenship), and they can’t see how such a system could ever turn out wrong.

And I doubt that any of them ever read the book, but just watched the movie. In his book, Heinlein has public service as a prerequisite for full citizenship, but military service was only one way to serve - one of Johnny’s friends was working as a research scientist on Pluto.

[Gatopescado]

@Stranger_On_A_Train

What a petty, puerile, infantine matter to waste their time focusing on.

Well, isn’t Chuck E. Cheese shut down for now? What the fuck else have they to do???

[Stranger_On_A_Train]

@Bookkeeper

And I doubt that any of them ever read the book, but just watched the movie. In his book, Heinlein has public service as a prerequisite for full citizenship, but military service was only one way to serve - one of Johnny’s friends was working as a research scientist on Pluto.

Heinlein briefly makes that point in the book, but the emphasis of the story is on military service, and Heinlein wrote is specifically in response to criticism of young men joining the military. (Heinlein did distinguish between the draft–to which he objected–and voluntary service, which he considered a civic duty.) The general notion that it should be obligatory to enter government service in order to exercise the right to vote in a democracy remains problematic to say the least, particularly given the traditional exclusion of Blacks and Asians from integrated service in the military and elsewhere, well within living memory of when the novel was published.

There are plenty of ways to exercise civic responsibility without working for the government, and there are obvious examples of people in military and civil service who clearly do not have the first notion of responsible exercise of the democratic franchise. Starship Troopers is notably colorblind (the Verhoeven expressly satirized this by deliberately casing the most pale white actors they could find) but you’ll find that actual experiences in the military were not then and are not now so welcoming to non-whites.

Stranger

[Siam_Sam]

Having been through a couple of coups in Thailand, I think I know a coup attempt when I see one. And that was a coup attempt.

[ASL_v2.0]

@Bookkeeper

And I doubt that any of them ever read the book, but just watched the movie.

Oh, trust me, they’ve all read the book. And they’re quick to mention the alternative forms of service mentioned (but never really explored) in the book as if that makes it all okay. FWIW, my (half a lifetime ago) recollection of the book was that although they would be obliged to find a method for, say, a quadriplegic to serve, it would be in the realm of something like a crash test dummy or similarly unequal form of service, seemingly to dehumanize and hazard such a person for even daring to ask to be treated as an equal (a citizen).

[El_Kabong]

@rboyce

Most of them honestly believed what Trump was saying

Being good American citizens , they honestly believed they were doing the right thing based on what the president of the USA was saying.

Wait, I thought they were all being duped into violence by Antifa. Which is it?

[Ike_Witt]

Half the crowd there was antifa, half the crowd was there because of Trump. The third half was only there to see what was going on.

[bobot]

@Ike_Witt

I assume that they would be okay then with making all candidates pass a test showing an understanding of the constitution they will be sworn to defend…

How-a-fucking-bout it!!

[not_what_you_d_expect]

@Ike_Witt

Half the crowd there was antifa, half the crowd was there because of Trump. The third half was only there to see what was going on.

And the 4th half were just there to support their 40-50 year old sons.

[bobot]

“When you leave Mommy’s basement, Mommy comes with you!”