It wasn’t a coup

The BBQ Pit
41

I think it was part of real coup attempt. An incredibly stupid coup attempt based on a delusional premise, but real nonetheless and the riot served a particular purpose towards “the furtherance of the scheme”, as prosecutors will say. A couple of purposes.

The primary purpose was to cause delay so they could pull some more stupid, doomed legal maneuvers. We know that because Rudy called a wrong number and revealed the details of the plan to the wrong person. He believed the critical information he would receive by the end of the next day would be the compelling evidence that would overturn the election.

It’s stupid beyond belief. It’s stupider than stupid. It’s so stupid it’s downright Republican in its stupidity. But it’s important to remember that Rudy really believed this and Trump really believed this.

The secondary purpose was brute intimidation, show the legislature they need to fear you, let them know that you are serious about this, that you’re staying in power and they’ll kill you if you try to stop them. Because they really believed that they would be staying in power, because of the powerful evidence that’s coming.

Our maybe they realize the evidence isn’t that powerful and may not even be evidence, just an old spiral notebook Rudy’s kid found in the closet, but they think they’ve rigged the judiciary.

I’ve got news for you, they thought this was going to work and I’m pretty sure they haven’t given up on the idea.

Sometimes we don’t recognize something because we have a preconception of what it’s supposed to look like.

What would you think the first time you saw a Rottweiler if the only dogs you had ever seen were toy poodles?
Would you recognize it’s essential …doglikeness…I guess, even if it didn’t look anything like any dog you’d ever seen?

I was thinking about that a few days ago with regards to civil war. What would it look like when it started and how would we recognize it? We aren’t going to have horses and muskets and bloody battles in big fields. How will we recognize what we’ve never seen?

I think we’ll know next week. I’m wondering if any crazy Republicans will refuse to acknowledge Biden to the extent they will “pledge Allegiance to Trump” and follow him to some cosplay “real” White House he sets up at Mar-a-Largo. Then it’ll be on.

42

I think that people see the silly pictures of people in horns, people laughing with their feet up on a desk, and people smiling while carrying the podium of Speaker of the House and think, “Just a merry ragtag band of misfits!”

However, these guys beat a police officer to death. They crushed another police officer behind a door as he screamed in agony. That was what these terrorists did to people they liked and respected.

What do you think would have happened if the terrorists had gotten into the House or Senate before they were evacuated? Were they going to give Nancy Pelosi a stern talking to? Tell AOC and Ilhan Omar that they did not agree with their policies? Politely inform Mike Pence and Mitch McConnell that they wished they had stood with Trump?

If Trump was handed Nancy Pelosi’s head on a platter, do you think he was going to say, “Oh no! This is horrible! What have you done? I was just meaning for you to go and peacefully protest!” If it had not been for some of the Capitol Police officers like Eugene Goodman doing their job and doing it well, people would be complaining to God-Emperor Trump today about how eBay was abusing section 230 by preventing them from selling the body parts of elected officials.

Just because the coup attempt failed (this time) does not mean it was not a coup attempt.

43

Exactly. The images that have dominated the media have been the “funny” ones. This is the moment that they murdered Officer Sicknick, while not strictly NSFW, I’ve put it behind double spoilers anyway as it may be triggering. There are other videos online that clearly show what was intended. There’s one of a person saying they’ll put heads on pikes once they get inside. This was a terroristic coup. No question.

https://www.reddit.com/r/PublicFreakout/comments/kuttfv/different_angle_taken_in_crowd_of_mob_attack_that/

44

I mean, I guess it was not a coup, if you use as the definition of a coup being a sudden, violent, and illegal seizure of power from a government.

But only because it failed.

This absolutely was an attempted coup.

45

coup

/ko͞o/

noun

  1. a sudden, violent, and illegal seizure of power from a government.

This was definitely an attempt to suddenly and violently seize power from a government.

What definition are you using @Sitnam?

46

I’d call it a terrorist attack.

47

Yeah. Exactly.

It wasn’t murder because the shot fired by the guy with the gun … missed.

It was attempted murder.

He may have been drunk, irrational, disorganized, or an idiot, but … it’s still attempted murder in a legal sense.

48

It was the intent of the rioters to take over government and effect a coup.

The actual invasion shows evidence of planning but it is not clear whether there was any planning beyond gaining entry and threatening and assaulting members of Congress. That is, it was an attempt to perpetrate violence on the government but I’m not sure how they would have actually taken it over.

But it was certainly a coup attempt. The rioters had the intent to take over government and took steps to that end. (Those are basically the criteria for attempted murder–intent and action, not success or competence.) It was an incompetent coup attempt but that doesn’t mean it wasn’t a coup attempt.

49

Let’s remember this moment:

“I can tell you I have the support of the police, the support of the military, the support of the Bikers for Trump – I have the tough people, but they don’t play it tough — until they go to a certain point, and then it would be very bad, very bad,” Trump said.

"But the left plays it cuter and tougher. Like with all the nonsense that they do in Congress … with all this invest[igations] — that’s all they want to do is — you know, they do things that are nasty. Republicans never played this.”

50

9/11 was a terrorist attack. The perpetrators had no intention of taking over the US government, but only influencing it. (In this they largely succeeded in getting the US to take counterproductive actions.)

The stated intention of Trump was to illegally take over the US government, and many of the rioters were supporting that goal. It was a coup attempt by any reasonable definition, even if a stupid one.

51

The intent of a terrorist attack is to instill fear in the populace. While this was certainly a horrifying incident that has caused many to fear for the future of the nation, the clear and explicit intent here of Trump and his supporters who marched from the White House to the Capitol Building was to prevent the certification of an election, and (for at least a few of the would-be insurgents) capture and punish key figures in Congress and Vice President Mike Pence for resisting the President’s directives to dismiss the votes of Electoral College electors in furtherance of handing the election to Trump. There is literally no way to view this as anything other than an attempted coup, or at least a forceful overturn of what is universally agreed to be a valid election except by a group of posturing Republicans (the vast majority of whom have since distanced themselves from claims of electoral fraud) and Trump’s group of supplicants and fanatical supporters.

Stranger

52

My view is that this was a coup because the objective was to illegally retain power - not only that but force was used - not all coups actually require direct force.

What has happened is that the term ‘coup’ has now been augmented by these events, the usual meaning still applies but these events have now added to that meaning.

53

What I worry about is if everyone focuses on the riot, which had no chance of success, they’ll ignore the real coup attempt that was carried out that same day by Congressional Republicans. Those people are still in power and are backed up by an organization which has the capabilities to overthrow the government.

54

With no purpose beyond causing terror?

55

Don’t forget: [in a stunning example of tripping over dollars to pick up dimes] something approaching half the country appears to be focused on the tech giants booting CFSG from their sites.

56

No achievable purpose.

57

CFSG?

58

Cheeto-faced shit gibbon.

Colorful expression courtesy of Scotland.

59

You’re evading. What was their non-achievable purpose?

60

It was in the eyes of the perpetrators, which is what matters.