It wasn’t a coup

The BBQ Pit
81

Two non-rhetorical questions for the OP:

*What do you think the mob was going to do had it gotten into the Senate or House chamber (or Capitol offices) while there were still Senators or Representatives there? The mob didn’t miss members of Congress or the Vice President by several minutes but by very thin margins, only seconds in the instance of the woman being shot as she and other members of the mob were breaking in the chamber door while members of Congress were led to safety out another door. IMHO, this was a lot more like lunging with a knife at Pelosi, Schumer, even Pence and McConnell, than it was like sticking pins in a voodoo doll or throwing bricks through a window.

*What do you call it if multiple leaders of the political opposition are killed at one time with the expressly stated object of ending their opposition? Especially when the mob is considering anyone not supporting the “Trump won the election” narrative as the opposition and thus suitable for killing (“Hang Mike Pence!”).

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And I am conservative and it was absolutely an autogolpe, a clownishly disorganized one as is typical of all Trump operations but it was one

83

I’ve been trying to figure out how the organizers of this coup thought it was going to work. So the mob takes over the capitol. They interrupt the vote, so then Trump just gets to stay president? Whoever is sitting in Pelosi’s chair gets to be speaker of the house? If you murder a few elected officials the rest will fall in line?

Then it occurred to me, these people are using the same logic that is found in the sovereign citizen stupidity. If there is a fringe on the flag, then the court’s verdict doesn’t count. There are magic words that can be said to get out of income taxes or a traffic stop. If Ohio isn’t a state, then none of these rules apply to me, or whatever silliness they convince themselves of.

So, if we hold the capitol then we are in charge. If we interrupt the counting of the votes, then the election never happened. If the election never happened, then Trump gets to stay president. It’s all just magical thinking.

84

This is a total WAG on my part and not based on any actual information I’ve heard or read, but I imagine they thought that if they got to the legislators they could get them to admit to the fraud. A tearful and shaking Pelosi would weakly raise her hands and swear to tell them everything if they spared her life, as they stream it live over the Internet. And then the sheep would wake up and realize that Trump is the rightful ruler after all, and the Democrats would go to jail, and BLM and Antifa would slink away without proper support, and they’d erect bronze statues of the patriots in DC that risked their lives to save America.

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“Sometimes the Magic works, sometimes it doesn’t.” - Chief Dan George

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  1. Postpone the vote
  2. Use the time to get four states to send “corrected” electoral votes to congress (See, e.g., phone call to Georgia Secretary of State)
  3. Have the Senate (or Pence if he’s still alive) accept the corrected votes over the real ones.
  4. Trump re-elected in a landslide.
87

I disagree only because I believe these people have been subsumed by their delusions to the extent that they really believed it would work.

Some of them really believed they could stall the process until they got more ammo in the election fraud bullshit. This seems insane, but it’s clearly evidenced by the leaked Rudy phone call.

Some of them believed the violence could successfully be blamed on antifa, then they could declare martial law and…something.

They thought they could do it because they thought they were invincible. They won with Russian assistance in 2016, got caught and found they had a pack of craven weasels and hyenas willing to defend them. The same pack voraciously defended them when he got caught paying off a porn star and extorting a foreign leader.

These craven weasels and hyenas made them think they were invincible, that they couldn’t lose.

They really thought they would get away with it. I think they still do, actually.

ETA: apropos of nothing, I really wish the phone call with the GA Sec of State hadn’t fallen off the news cycle so fast. I don’t think any news outlet covered the part where he told attorney Ryan Germany that he had a very nice last name. That goes to mindset, I think.

88

More to the point, Trump clearly thought he could get away with it by applying enough pressure to senators and Mike Pence to void election results. This wasn’t just a casual offsides over a handful of ballots; this was part of a concerted effort to convince election officials, secretaries of individual states, and the certifying body to ignore valid Electoral College votes. Directly interfering in the process of a legitimate election by threat or application of force is an attempt at a coup. There is no other way to interpret this event.

Stranger

89

I think the people are probably divided between those who @echoreply described and those who you described; some whose brains have devised literally no plan, but somehow believe that action A will lead to result B “just because that’s how it should work”, and those who are living out superhero tough-guy fantasies with the US government as the big baddie, and Trump and the MAGAs as the saviors of the universe.

The former group are useful and docile foot soldiers for the latter.

90

It wasn’t a “coup” or an “insurrection”. Those terms signify some measure of organization and planning.

It was a disorganized mob with a few thugs who were apparently hoping to kidnap, injure or kill hated politicians.

Don’t glorify the confused actions of nincompoops. The leaders want martyrs, so don’t attempt to convict the rabble of “sedition”, but mainly go after them for trespass, property destruction, creating a nuisance and such.

And have much better security in the future (hint: don’t hire the sort of Capitol police who take selfies with rioters or even worse (as has been suggested) give aid to the goon squad.

*might also be an idea to help out the witches and Wiccans who are putting hexes on this guy:

91

One thought that has been bandied about was that since the day of the count is set by the US Code, forcing an emergency cancellation of the count on that day could cause a default. That could then arguably send the count to the House where delegations vote by state, rather than by electoral votes. And there are more Republican-held states so Trump could be elected by simple majority.

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I don’t believe that at all. There was obviously planning. I can believe that these people carried guns as a matter of habit or a display of force, or exercising their 2nd Amendment rights. But they had restraints and explosives. You don’t bring those and then spontaneously riot. That is clearly not what happened, it takes willful ignorance to believe that.

Not well-planned, not well-organized, sure. But not a chance in hell that this was spontaneous. That’s ridiculous.

94

-Blinks-

“'Stop the Steal’ Organizer in Hiding After Denying Blame for Riot”

:thinking:

95

It’s not a coup attempt just because they believe it was one. Just like they’re not patriots just because they think they are.

We’ve been living through forty years of conservatives trying to redefine reality. We need to stop letting them define reality and forcing the rest of us to accept their terms. We need to drag them back into the real world.

Calling it a coup attempt gives these people too much credit. And that will encourage other people to follow their example. We need to be telling everyone that you can’t overthrow the government with a terrorist attack. So just stay home.

96

That is why I called it a stupid coup.

97

It was a coup attempt.

We watched it happen.

The President knowingly and with malicious aforethought organized a rally with him giving a speech at the exact same time the certification process was being run.

The rally was marketed as ‘Stop the Steal’.

Many were wearing emblems of American Rebellion rhetoric: don’t treat on me, 1776, MAGA Civil War, others

During his speech the President called on the mob to march on Congress, claiming he would join them. As evidence of the Steal, he presented already debunked lies.

Because Trump is a stupid asshole, who can’t build bridges, he failed.

Because his kids are morons, they filmed a gleeful Trump as my Senators and Representatives were attacked.

Failure or not, it was a coup attempt.

In my mind, the President conscripted an ad hoc army and, for 3 hours, used it to wage war against the Legislative Branch, against my Senators, my Representatives. Against me and my right to have my vote count.

Therefore, because he raised an army, he declared war against the United States of America and his actions are, legally, treasonous.

In time, if the legally appointed authority decides Trump needs to be given a cigarette, a blindfold, and 3 minutes with a chaplain, I’m good with that.

98

Yes, these “we can find a loophole in the Constitution” clowns thought if they could get the session postponed a day, the Supreme Court would void the election since the votes weren’t opened or counted at a meeting on Jan 6th.Then, as their theory goes, neither side had the votes and it would be thrown back to the state delegations.

While the vote count didn’t finish until Jan 7th, the meeting did start on the 6th. Otherwise, I’m absolutely sure they would’ve tried to pull that shit.

As we investigate, we need to find out the extent of the pressure campaign. I really want to know how many calls Trump or his surrogates made to Supreme Court justices in an effort to “win their vote”.

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That’s not the take of the former Chief of the Capitol Police. It wasn’t just a “few thugs” and they were prepared.