I haven’t been involved in that many sexual harassment claims that have gone outside the company, thankfully, but the few we’ve had that went beyond the borders of the company, the complainant has invariably been asked by the hearing officer or arbitrator if they informed the harasser that the complainant was uncomfortable with the harasser’s behavior. Perhaps it isn’t legally required, but it is a question that will be asked and the complainant will be best served if they have taken that extra step.
As an employer, it’s one of the first things we ask an employee who makes a complaint - have you talked with the harasser? We suggest that first because it can be simply a misunderstanding on one or the other employee’s part and easily dealt with without requiring a write up or other action that will impact the employee’s permanent record. And if it’s more serious, the complainant has strengthened any eventual case by making his or her position clear to the harasser.
Of course if someone comes to us fearful of the harasser, we will not ask them to discuss their situation with the harasser. In fact, if they are fearful enough, we’ll call the police and let them take a report.
The bulk of these cases, however, are misunderstandings, or simple d’oh moments where someone has inadvertently said or done something offensive, not meaning to do so. A simple conversation between the two employees can usually resolve them.
Like I said- yes and no. It’s expected in many cases, but not in Quid pro quo, which this would seem to fall under.
I agree, in simple peer to peer " misunderstandings, or simple d’oh moments where someone has inadvertently said or done something offensive, not meaning to do so" then yes- “*A simple conversation between the two employees can usually resolve them.”. *
But this looks like a* Quid pro quo* issue, which is different.
Seems like it’s being handled properly so far, ivylass.
As to the side debate being carried out, ISTM that there may be some cultural leak-over of the “only come up the chain when you can’t resolve this among yourselves” POV that often may apply to other aspects of work, say a disagreement over what deal to give a customer or who gets what prospects. Problem with that is that with things like sexual harassment, as mentioned, there is a duty of the employer to provide a safe environment to start with and you DO need to create a record and paper trail early on so that there will be no question that the proper steps were followed from the get-go when the time comes to take action.
And may I agree that smart-assed comebacks and retaliatory dickishness are not the answer in a case like this.
The point about “confronting the harasser” isn’t telling people to settle it amongst themselves, it’s to ensure the harasser knows the attention is unwanted before it gets to HR.
Stupid idea; going to HR first gives everyone a face-saving out.
Sigh, we’d all like to think that, but in practice the woman gets labeled as a hypersensitive ball-busting bitch. And, quite possibly, called up to HR herself for “creating a hostile workplace environment”.
I think the only useful response is “What did you just say?”
I have to agree with that last idea. In fact I once said, “I’m pretty sure you didn’t mean that the way it sounded” in response to a dumb pass from an employer, and that was the end of it forever. But in the OP’s case I’m glad the boss took the complaint seriously, and yes, it does sound like it’s come up before with this guy. Hope he either reforms or gets fired.
In this case, I think it was pretty blatant. Telling Ivygirl that if he were her boyfriend, he wouldn’t be able to keep his hands off her. In what world could that be construed as a “misunderstanding?” The fact that he’s acted the same to other women is also points against him.
Sexual harassment will never end, not so long as men continue to be men and women continue to be women. In other words, vive la differance.
What really bothers me though is the way women aggressors are handled versus male aggressors.
We had an incident at work last year where there ended up being about a dozen complaints against one woman for sexual harassment. About 7 or 8 of the complaints ended up sticking and guess what happened to her?
She received a one day suspension and was no longer able to work as a supervisor. That’s bullshit. If it had been a man with a dozen complaints against him, we all know what would have happened to him. Along with losing his job, he would have found himself in court.
Btw, our union, which has about 30,000 members, is top heavy with women. Maybe that says it.
As was said “worst HR team ever” - this guy already has a few strikes against him, so he is a clear liability - but neither Ivylass’ daughter or HR would know that had each woman not stepped forward.
My harasser spent 18 months continuing to work for the company - then “poof” - one day he was told to pack up his desk. I never confirmed, but always wondered if I’d paved the way for him to say one more thing to one more woman and when she said something, it was because I - in a way - had her back. My complaint was not quiet, it was well known corporate gossip (Executive VP of a Fortune 500 company), that gives his next victim a lot of leverage, because now you know there is more than one of you - someone to stand in court next to you and say “me too” should it get that far.
It’s not the responsibility of the person being harrassed to engage with the harrasser. That’s just wrong. Think it through and you ought to be able to figure out why that policy would not be acceptable.
Well, if you read the entire thread, it looks like she did do the right thing by going straight to the boss. (BTW, you can get in HUGE trouble for firing someone over a sexual harassment claim. “Hostile work environment”?) I can’t believe this crap that women should just suck it up, because otherwise they’ll be looked at as troublemakers. Fuck that shit.
This is completely wrong. Whether or not done behavior constitutes harassment does not depend on the victim’s confronting her harasser. Do you see how this makes her a victim twice over? Disciplinary issues are a manager’s job.
If you are a manager and someone comes to you with a problem like this and you let them know that they’re expected to try to work it out themselves before coming to you then not only are you being s bad manager but you’re also putting your company at legal risk.
Thanks enalzi. My dad also had a 30 year career as a used car manager in a few dealerships around here, and yeah, the stereotype does get a bit old. My dad was a great guy and well liked wherever he worked.
There’s no difference between a car dealership and any other workplace, in my experience. Salesmen of any sort bring a certain amount of charm to the table, but that doesn’t necessarily equal skeeviness.
The sales manager in the OP does sound mighty crude, though.
What does that even mean? He’s a brown noser? So what? Saying someone has a small dick doesn’t have much impact when you’re still offering sexual favors.
I googled that line and it popped up on a bunch of “best comebacks to sexist comment” type articles. Somehow, it wasn’t the worst one. It’s like these writers are going out of their way to reinforce the “women aren’t funny” stereotype. For anti-lulz, here’s the worst one I found:
Perhaps officials might ask “did you tell him to stop?” but that doesn’t mean the victim is expected to fix everything directly. It could just mean they want as much information about what happened as practically possible. If they ask what day the offense occurred, is that supposed to mean that harassment is only prohibited on certain days?
I keep hearing, everyplace it is discussed carefully and responsibly, that it’s the employer’s responsibility to provide an environment that isn’t hostile and doesn’t allow harassment. Asking questions is just asking questions. If this employer did dig in their heels for some dumb reason, then that would have been a whole new problem.
We should not be persuading all the victims who happen to be reading that they are supposed to privately and individually engage the harasser further. How terrible would that be?
The reason I suggested saying something to the jerk was twofold. First off, women really do need to be more assertive in situations like this. Not confrontational, not bitchy, not threatening, just upfront and honest “I do not like what you said to me. Don’t do it again.” Simple language, simple message.
Secondly, and related to the first, if your initial reaction is to tell someone higher up, you may give the impression that you’re a spoiled little kid running to mommy whenever things don’t go your way. Yes, the boss needs to know, but before that, the jerk needs to know that you’re not going to stand for any jerkery.
Threats of violence are entirely different and definitely need to be taken to the next level immediately.
I have no idea what the law says, but I know lots of socially clueless people, and I side with the “tell the guy to stop” camp. I think it is helpful to directly tell someone, preferably in front of others, that you find his statement socially unacceptable.
Yeah, this, too. I’d tell the boss, or go to hr, when he continued after being asked to stop, of course. And I’d also update my resume.
I gather she already told her boss. I hope it all works out.