kittenblue, I’m sorry you’re hurting and I hope things turn around for you soon. Hope things went well for your son in court today.
The idea that this man moght be gay is not so far-fetched. When I was in college, I worked at a restaurant with a bunch of other 20-somethings. There was one guy there that I developed a crush on at some point. He was older, into a lot of the same things as me and a very funny and nice guy. After I had broken up with the guy I was dating, this guy started to ask me out to do various things. We would go to the symphony or out to a park or out to dinner. We always had a great time, talking the night away and having fun together. But he never touched me. At all. Same thing as you described. I take that back, actually, I think we might have held hands for a few mintues once or soemthing. But he neveer kissed me, never put his arms around me, nothing. I’m a very affectionate person and quite open to other’s affection. I was also a hot, young college chick at the time! And I was in pretty good shape, too. After awhile, I just figured it was the age difference. He was close to 30, I think, and I was 21 or so and I figured while he enjoyed my company, he just thought of me as a kid who happened to like doing the same things. We never really talked about it and this went on for several months. Then another guy I worked with asked me out and we started dating, in the regular sort of dating way. Shortly afterwards, we were all heading up to a wedding of a co-worker and the 30 year old asked if I was going to drive up with him. I said, no I was going with this other guy, who I guess he didn’t realize I had begun seeing. And then he said something to the effect of “So I guess we’re not dating any more?” I almost fell on the floor! I said I really hadn’t realized that he had considered us as dating and thought he only thought of me as a friend. A few months later, a mutual friend who is gay, finally spent some time with the guy (I mean talking, hanging out) and together they came to the realization that the guy was gay. I don’t remember if he ever followed though with any kind of physical relationship, but at least I didn’t feel quite so bad about not being attractive or whatever. So it’s definitely not out of the realm of possibilities that that’s what your guy is going through. I’m sorry, though, that you got hurt in the process, no matter what the problem is.
Wow. Woke up this morning, and while I’m still very upset, the weight has definitely lifted. The possibility of Reason #18 being correct has done quite a bit to change my outlook. While I still don’t think it’s the right reason, it has given me a new perspective. I have spent quite a lot of time thinking about how my own insecurity issues about my weight have contributed to this, and how his insecurities about his weight have surfaced from time to time (and he by no means has as much of a problem as I). Why was I so happy that someone was willing to spend ANY time with me that I was willing to overlook some basic truths. And why was he so eager to spend so MUCH time with me when I wasn’t what he was looking for?
Well, I’m not waiting around doing nothing. I wrote out a new personal ad. In six months I’ll be a significantly different person physically, and I don’t intend to waste 2-1/2 more years.
I think the is one of the keys that’s going to help you feel better and better about the situation, regardless of why he broke up with you. When you don’t love yourself, you can overlook many things about a person who seems to care about you simply because they love you, and you are grateful for it. Sometimes that gratidute can look like love. I don’t doubt you care for this man deeply, I think gratitude for his company played a part in your affection for him.
You need to learn that you have self-worth regardless of whether a man loves you or not, and it sounds like you are beginning to realize that. I wish you the best of luck with your upcoming surgery, and hope that you have a speedy physical and emotional recovery.
That’s a good thought. I really am a basically happy person. But my whole life I’ve been used to being ignored by men, completely and totally, even when I was thin. I wasn’t the girl that guys would sit around talking to. If a guy spent time with me, it was because he cared for me, or was attracted to me. There were almost no casual friends (unless they lived across the street or next door) and no long-term male friends. That’s just the way it’s been.
Hell, I am young and could be inexperienced, make any judgements you want I do not care. Do not listen to me at all if you wish. I feel I have a similar story/advice for you if you care to hear.
For the past few years I have grown to love and adore my now best friend. This is the have-not-stopped-thinking-about-her-in-two-years type of love. Love as a best friend, love as a lover I do not know. It is confusing. I am good friends with her entire family and she to mine. The kind of thing of talking to her constantly and atleast 3 times a day for an hour or so. The only friend I ever really had outside of school and a fine one at that.
Anyways, about last December we got so close that we were, basicaly, dating. I think she might of had some sort of sexual lust or whatever you were talking about but all I wanted was someone to talk to, cuddle with, and ocassionaly kiss. Well, it was perfect, and we had a long relationship just like then one you described. She would come over every day and we would just watch TV together and relax. Awesome.
Towards the middle of May she began to talk to this other guy. No worries, I openly supported her talking to other people. Made me feel wonderful to know that I could give back to this person who had made me so happy. Well, I found out a little later that they had got close whenever they were together, enough so for them to be in a relationship. At first, yea, kind of sad to lose all that greatness that was once your life for 6 months in my case and 2 and a half in yours. I had never once in my entire life really felt “human touch” and cuddling with her was magnificent. I still can feel the way my arm would form to her side. She was also my first kiss which gave me something else to miss. Anyways, I just accepted her wanting to try other people out. This could be said due to age I am not sure. But, the important thing was, for me, openess. I never once regreted my decision to support her other relationship.
And you know what? That willingness to accept who she wants to be with has allowed me to keep my best friend. I think our relationship has only gotten stronger over it. There were no good bye kisses, no termination of the relationship. I accepted her as a “girlfriend,” again as a friend, and I accept that at any time in the future I may or may not get the oppurtunity to be her “girlfriend” again. I even got to be friends with the guy over it!
As a side note, someone at 51 might be scared in his current situation. He might be trying to exhaust all possibilities or he might just want more security in knowing who is right for the rest of his life. He could also of always felt something more with you but had no idea how to act on it so gave up and looked elsewhere. He may see in you a friendship but he might see in this women something else that he feels like he needs. I bet, though, he really needs the friendship, which leads to the bottom line.
Bottom line? Try not to judge him over it. Accept that it is who he is and that, with a little more work, you can remain as good as friends as ever. Maybe even more.
I’m such an idiot. I got to thinking about how I didn’t really let him talk much, and I have a bunch of questions, so I emailed him :wally Idiot, idiot, idiot.
I don’t think you’re an idiot. You need answers…closure. You need to clarify exactly what the relationship was. I hope he’ll be honest with you and tell you exactly what he was doing all that time. I don’t think you can truly move on until the questions are answered.
This is purely one man’s opinion -
I’m a 46 year old man. If I was in a supposed boyfriend - girlfriend situation and there was no real hot and heavy physical interaction pretty soon (ie weeks to months) into it, even if it was short of intercourse, that would not be a boyfriend - girlfriend situation. I feel for you, but you have been engaging in a massive self delusion on the premise that your couplehood was “different”. Hugs and gentle touches for 2.5 years may be charming, but it sounds like this guy was not attracted to you physically at all.
You need to stop humilating yourself like this. ie
He wants to be with other women, and you’re still willing to be his babysitter. Are you some craven, needy, human doormat?
Drop the weight, get some new clothes, and get a real boyfriend who’ll love you, and want to be all over you romantically and physically.
No, I’m just a really practical woman. Here’s what you don’t know: his son and my daughter are friends. His son just moved to an apartment four blocks away from me. His girlfriend works nights, and in addition to the baby they have a 4 year-old. He works building maintenance in an apartment complex that has lately been having huge plumbing problems, so he gets called out often at night. His dad (the dumper) lives 20 minutes away, his mom lives an hour away, I live 5 minutes away. I told him to call me whenever he needs an emergency sitter…I’m usually up late, and I can get there quicker. The relief on this couple’s faces when they found out I could babysit was enormous…when you are young and new to the community, finding a safe babysitter is difficult, and finding a free one when you are broke is a godsend. I don’t think they should suffer just because his dad wants to date someone else. I like his son a lot. I think it would be petty to cut him off. I even called him tonight to offer to babysit if they want to go out this weekend (since I’m now free)…I did not mention what had transpired with his dad.
Besides, I haven’t finished the quilt for the baby yet, or the little outfit, and I need to measure to be sure it’s the right size.
It would help tremendously if the canned music in my place of work didn’t start out each day with Break-up and Lost Love songs…it even plays a remix of “Why Can’t We Be Friends?” And since I’m generally alone for three hours and there is no one to distract me by talking to me, mornings are getting to be the worst time of day.
In this case you are not a doormat. Your arrangement to babysit is between the son (young father of baby) and you. Not the dad (Mr. Dumper). I think that this offer to babysit makes you a decent person, and a good friend to the young father (who is, after all, a friend of your daughter’s).
Just as long as you’re clear that this won’t change anything between you and Mr. Dumper (and I assume you know this) and that he’s gonna do what he’s gonna do and while you can still be friends, the hope for more is extremely remote, yadda yadda yadda. Yeah, you already know all of this!
Good luck to you, spend your time looking forward to buying that new wardrobe! 
If you’re there alone, is there any way to just shut the music off? Or change the tape?
Well, I could keep it turned off until someone else comes in…many’s the morning I do that. But it was a new disc that just came in the mail, and I decided to start playing it because I hoped for a better mix of tunes. I could keep fast forwarding, or switch to an older disc. But tomorrow, I work alone all day, and there will be no music. I have issues with fireworks day and being alone, so I don’t need any more depression…this year I got up the nerve to ask the guy to go to see fireworks with me, and he agreed…then dumped me. Sigh. I’ll never get out of this pattern. Some day I’ll post all the pathetic things that have gone on in my life on the Fourth of July these last ten years.
Watch the movie “In and Out” with Kevin Klein and Tom Selleck.
I’m vaguely familiar with the film. But, I’m a cheap, cheap man. That, combined with the fact that I have no credit card and cannot get membership at any rental chain, keeps me from renting movies.
Use spoiler boxes if you must.
I just rented this movie. I was disappointed. It had funny parts, to be sure, but overall, I didn’t like it very much. I’ll summarize it for you:[spoiler]It starts with this much beloved school teacher (Kline), a week before his wedding to fellow teacher (Joan Cusak). He’s got a loving mom (Debbie Reynolds) who is looking forward to the wedding. She wants that ceremony, no matter what, dammit.
Anyway, one of Kline’s former students (Matt Dillon) is now a world famous actor, and is nominated for an Oscar for a role of a gay soldier. During Dillion’s Oscar acceptance speech, he “outs” Kline as a wonderful teacher of his—“who is gay.”
The whole town hears this and start asking Kline, “are you gay?” Kline vehementy denies this. The media swoops down on the town and badgers Kline, pestering him about his sexual preference. Kline vehemently denies he is gay. Kline likes show tunes, adores Barbra Streisand, has impeccable taste, but denies he’s gay. His friends always took his love for Streisand, etc., for granted all these years. (There’s a hilarious scene where all his buddies throw a bachelor party, and while Kline—in full “overcompensating macho-mode”—is expecting porn movies. But the friends want to show Streisand movies, because they know these films are is absolute favorite.)
During their 3 year engagement, Kline has never slept with his fiance, Cusak. He claims that this is because he respects her, but, after being given some encouragement from a Catholic priest (this part I find unbelievable), Kline attempts to “get it on” with Cusak, to “prove” he is not gay. He does not, however, and poor Cusak is confused by his sudden, vehement advances.
One of the reporters that sticks around in the town (for the wedding) is handsome Tom Selleck. Selleck tries to convince Kline to come out of the closet that Kline vehemently denies he is in. Selleck then reveals that he (Selleck) is gay, and then (in an attempt to “draw Kline out” of the closet, plants a long, long kiss on Kline. Kline responds with confusion, shock, and some level of arousal by the kiss, but immediately runs off and makes more plans for the wedding.
However, during the wedding, right when he’s asked to say, “I do,” he says, “I’m gay.” Finally coming to grips with his homosexuality. His thwarted bride is absolutely livid (“THREE YEARS!” She rants in sexual frustration), but all is well because actor Dillion (the one who stirred up this whole hornet’s nest) has come to town to try to help out. He always had a crush on Cusak and at the end things look like they are developing between Cusak and Dillon. The last scene has Selleck and Kline (who now appear to be some sort of couple) attending the “renewing of vows” between his mom (Debbie Reynolds) and her husband. Reynolds didn’t get the ceremony from her son, but she got the “big day” anyway, so everyone’s happy.
Oh, there was also the corny and obligatory scene prior to that where all the community comes in to support him when he is fired from his schoolteaching job because he came out of the closet. I mean, it was sweet and it meant well, but it was so corny and forced.[/spoiler]
There. You’ve got the plot of “In and Out.”
I knew I should have edited that summary more: Here:He does not “get it on” with Cusak, however (they are interrupted or something).
I should add that I just saw this movie a few days ago. Weird!
My sympathies, kittenblue, and your son is absolutely right.
If it’s any comfort at all, you’ve just escaped a situation a friend of mine has been in for five years, with no end in sight. The relationship is still totally platonic. Plenty of kind words but a quite definite withholding of any physical or actually even romantic gestures. She’s still somehow conviced they’re soul mates and will eventually marry. It’s so painful, because it won’t ever happen. She just hasn’t realized it yet. And he won’t come clean with her. At least your friend had the decency to cut the cord.
FWIW, the problem most definitely is his, and absolutely nothing you have the least control or influence over. Saying he has “intimacy issues” is pretty trite, but take a long, clear look at the circumstances. You’re taking control of your life and making a major change that will make you healthier, happier and more attractive. I don’t think it’s coincidental that he decided to pursue a woman he won’t see very often. Talk about “comfortable distance”. He’s shown every sign of a guy who simply doesn’t have it to give.
I guess it doesn’t really matter why he is the way he is, because you can’t change any of it. He may be conflicted sexually or just so emotionally scarred or exhausted he can’t cope with intimacy beyond a certain depth. That doesn’t make him a bad guy, but it sure doesn’t make you a fool or undesirable either.
Stop beating yourself up, but please watch your impulse to babysit, stay friends, etc. very closely. You don’t have to get mad, but I’m not sure it’s healthy for you, or for his kids, for that matter. It’s going through the motions of role that’s a dead end for all of you. You can’t play second fiddle or emergency back-up without adding to the unhealthy mix. There’ve been plenty of confusion and mixed signals already. Walk away kindly, but walk away.
All the best to you, kittenblue.
Veb
Thanks for the kind words, TVeblen, and everyone else who has tried to cheer me up and give me Dopeslaps. And to think I was going to ask that we go see “Delovely” on our next movie night!!! If what you all think is true is true, that would have been quite a movie to sit thru!
I didn’t get asked to babysit tonight, so you and Astro can stop worrying about that for now. If nothing else, every experience like this teaches me more about what I want and what I can give, and how I react to things. One of the problems with being married to an alcoholic for 16 years is that, for me at least, I learned to hide what I was truly feeling because his anger was always justified, and mine was always bitchiness, or so he would have had me believe. The wonderful thing about this two+year platonic dating thing is that it gave me a chance to relate to a grown-up male who truly wanted nothing more from me but my company and friendship. To learn how to talk to a man without being flirtatious. To have someone listen to me with actual interest. To be able to express opinions without worrying if someone would start a fight about what I said just so he could leave the house. So the good thing is I don’t keep heading for the same type of guy! And I’ve learned that one can be too patient, too understanding, and too afraid.
Kittenblue One of the best pieces of advice I’ve ever read is “Blaze through life like a comet- undeterred, unafraid, and unashamed.”
I realize I’ve forgotten to say this- Regardless of the explanation, the problem was definitely with him. I say that because that is my honest opinion. I’m not blaming him simply to cheer you up or because you’re a Doper and he isn’t.
And the music could be worse. Last week at K Bee, I heard the Princess Precious (The voice was annoyingly cutsie wootsie, but r and l were properly pronounced) version of Blame It On The Bossa Nova.
I honestly don’t know how the employees their restrain themselves from ripping out the speakers.