It's always a fucking Pit Bull

I tend to fall close, but not all the way, on the pro-pit-bull side of this debate. Anti-breed ordinances are ineffective; media accounts are overblown; pit bulls can be fine family dogs.

And yet.

When I worked for animal control, one of my first experiences was working with evidence for a dogfighting trial. The pits in this case were bred for game, which meant in this case that they really, really wanted to kill other dogs. The puppies that were seized started fighting one another so viciously at around 8 weeks (I think it was 8 weeks, might’ve been a little later) that they had to be separated for their own safety.

Lots of dogs have different behaviors bred into them (or rather bred for emphasis), whether it’s retrieving or territoriality or gentleness or a desire to follow scent trails. It’s certainly plausible that you could breed for anti-dog aggression. And certainly breeders into modern times–illegal breeders, but breeders nonetheless–have tried for that. And what I’ve seen makes me think it can be horrifyingly successful.

So I’m mostly on the pro-pit side, but I also think it’s important to recognize that some pit bulls (a term I’m happy to use because seriously fuck the AKC) ARE inherently dog-aggressive, having been bred for that. Not all pits, not by a long shot–but some, and significantly more have been bred for that trait in recent times than, say, golden retrievers.

What that means for public policy? It means shut down the assholes breeding for aggression. It doesn’t mean anti-breed policies.

IMO , it’s wouldn’t be caused by "bad dog ownership " , but most likely, by long term horrible inhuman abuses and plain stupidity, on the owners part, that would be the cause.

In my experience most aggressive dogs act out of fear. This can be due to a lack of socialization or by dealing with discredited bullshit that is shilled by idiots like Cesar Millan. Discredited techniques like the alpha roll cause aggression and socialization of older dogs of any kind only benefits dogs if they find it enjoyable.

People punish minor acts of stress or aggressive behaviour. The dog may stop exhibiting “aggressive displays” but at the the risk that the next time the dog is in the same situation that they skip the bark, or the growl and move to the next stage.

Mix this in with the anxiety, fear and phobias caused by enforcing the “pack” leader mentality and you have serious problems.

The “pack” and “dominance” theory is discredited and destructive and even the authors whom originally wrote the book that originally claimed it was true have recanted the claims decades ago.

http://4pawsu.com/alphawolf.pdf

While dog fighting and misguided guard dog training may be responsible for some of the attacks it is maladjustment that causes the danger.

If you have the stomach to see what is done to fighting dogs to make them fight you will see that starvation, abuse, isolation, and drugging are used to drive the dogs to fight. Well socialized, dominant personality dogs do not fight like they do. They don’t need to as they are social mammals. The anxiety and aggression that result from social isolation applies to humans and other mammals too.

While I am very selective I have spent my entire adult life adopting or working with neglected special needs dogs. I tend towards huskies just because their are so many that are in need of homes and because of their physical needs and their need for positive training.

They are a weird case, because like other sled dogs they were bred to ignore humans commands if they thought it was in their best interest. You don’t want your team going onto thin ice as an example, they should overrule you. But this also means that the alpha roll crap is ignored and the only thing they take away from it is what all dogs do, that their human is unpredictable and needs to be feared.

But another critical point to bring up after my last paragraph is that while there are some very generic claims on behavior you can make about pure bred dogs due to their extremely limited gene pool all of that goes out the window with mixed breeds. They are just dogs.

But what does happen is when someone owns a mixed breed that they think is a pit they treat them like they are a dangerous weapon. They admonish signs of stress in response to what they believe the dog is. This is the issue, vicious psychopathic dogs are as rare psychopathic humans.

If you were going to blame a trait of pure bred staffies I would blame tenacity which is a very common problem in training using dominance based techniques. But after 200+ years of breeding as companion animals I find that suspect.

The main risk factors from the above cite demonstrate that a number of factors lead to the tragic loss of life. And primarily it is an issue of people whom are unfamiliar with dogs coming in contact with socially isolated, abused dogs.

“OTHER able bodied person” typically means an adult if you look at the data. You have a little kid run up and hug an abused, unsocialized, isolated dog and bad things happen. It is listed as a common factor in the attacks and a cause of death not as a predicate for attack.

And from that study to show how insanely rare these deaths are.

And the reasons victim was
deemed unable to interact appropriately.

I once had a pit bull cross chow, named Sadie who’s only claim’s to fame was she was stingy with the pillows and was capable of snuggling a full grown person right off the bed. She was a black brindled strawberry blonde with a pit bull head and a chows fur .
One morning my 7 year old daughter was out doing her chores , feeding and watering the poultry, when she surprised a 4 foot ring tailed diamond back who had been eyeing one of the hens . Sadie knocked my girl away from the snake and stayed between my girl and the snake , barking and raising hell un till I got there with the . 410 shot gun. Sadie took the strike that had been meant for the kid . Lucky for Sadie , her barking and the screaming kid and the thick chow fur ,that when the dust settled there was a dead snake , and a very brave protective dog with a slight scratch who was being hugged so tight by that kid the poor dog could hardly breathe.
Pit bulls are loyal, brave and very protective of their humans when raised as part of the family .
When I see some gang banger or thug ‘walking’ around with a pit bull at the end of a log chain and a choke collar, I want to do the dog the favor by ridding it of the stupid human.

Let’s not forget that Colleen Lynn is a professional fortune teller. You’re dealing with the dog world’s version of ZPG Zealot there, people!

Believe me. Part of my job used to be talking to students at a rural high school about animal cruelty, and I’d regularly have a third of the class who had attended an organized dog fight. I’d have students talk about their brother’s pit and how he terrorized the dog in order to drive it insane so it would be crazy in the fight. I’d show students a graphic video about dogfighting, produced by HSUS. The evidence I worked with included a photograph of a dog post-fight, with a bone sticking out of her leg. I know there’s terrible stuff done.

At the same time, one of the dogs that was seized broke out of her kennel one night (the facilities we had were atrocious, such that this was possible), and left a trail of blood through the shelter as she went from kennel to kennel apparently slamming herself against bars trying to get at the dogs inside. That’s not just dominance behavior. That’s something more.

I disagree. People have been breeding dogs for personality traits for tens of thousands of years; the concept of “purebred” is only a few centuries old. It’s true that a line of dogs that’s not bred for behavior will quickly see behavior traits slip to the median; but amateur breeding outside of purebred programs is quite capable of producing traits. A couple of backwoods rednecks who want to create a mean-as-shit fighting dog can breed mean-as-shit dogs together for a few generations and produce a real doozy, just as they could produce a dog with good hunting instincts using similar methods.

This is not how most pit bulls are bred, of course, and the problem is that people generalize from this. But some pit bulls ARE bred for “game”, and some breeders satisfy themselves with breeding a dog who wants to kill other dogs, considering that close enough to game for their purposes.

According to a very long-running (40 years?) canine temperament research project, pitbulls/Am staffies have an 86.4% “good doggie” rating (they score a bit above golden retrievers).

Dogs with a much lower positive temperament rating than pits include: chihuahuas (68.3%), jack russells, bichon friches, daschunds, and other small, highstrung, bitey dogs.

Let’s go down to the quarry and take a dump. This is dumb.

Doggie racism?

I had to jet out yesterday before I was able to provide cites. The ATTS Breed Statistics – rather fascinating: http://atts.org/breed-statistics/statistics-page1/

ATTS has been testing canines since 1977. I’m not statistic-y inclined, but it looks as if the hundreds of pits/Am Staffies tested makes for a pretty solid rating; the breeds with a minimal amount of participation would seem to not produce valid ratings.

This site is worth reading just for the funky breed names!

Here’s my fucking pitbull puppy: http://i628.photobucket.com/albums/uu7/JennDiamond1967/0313161440-1.jpg"]http://i628.photobucket.com/albums/uu7/JennDiamond1967/0313161440-1.jpg

Viciousness!: http://i628.photobucket.com/albums/uu7/JennDiamond1967/0313161446.jpg"]http://i628.photobucket.com/albums/uu7/JennDiamond1967/0313161446.jpg

Death by kisses: http://i628.photobucket.com/albums/uu7/JennDiamond1967/Front.jpg"]http://i628.photobucket.com/albums/uu7/JennDiamond1967/Front.jpg

My uncle’s Pyrenees got mistaken for Saint Bernard’s a lot, conversely. Apparently “hairy, friendly, sofa-sized dog” = Saint Bernard.

Jennshark, the third pic is a car. Does BMW have a Pitbull model?

Uh, “Death by Kisses” is, obviously, not a pitbull puppy. I missed the edit window, so enjoy :smiley:

Yes, it’s the new 535i Pitbull Limited Edition. :smiley:

I missed the edit window to fix after I realized it was wrong pic, LOL.

Comes with a preloaded selection of dance hits by a head-shaven Cuban-American in the music system!

BigTerrior ain’t no dawg

This study has one major flaw … it only covers people who volunteer to bring their dogs in to be tested. People who already know their dogs are nasty weren’t tested at all.