plg: I can see how the situation you describe is precisely analogous to a lone German Shepherd standing under a streetlight and barking. The parallels are staggering. :rolleyes:
Grow up, m’kay dear? If you want to argue analogous situations, go right ahead. If you want to come up with a ridiculously extreme example of bad pet ownership and pretend it has anything to do with what we were discussing, go do it somewhere where ignorant people hang out. Like your living room, or something.
Look okay, Barking is not fucking ‘protecting their owners property’, especially when they just sit there barking when no one is within 100 yards of their owners property.
Also, frankly, a dog isnt going to stop a determined thief by barking etc. Dogs arent bullet proof.
I wouldn’t shoot a dog unless it was rabid, or if it was self-defense, etc etc.
That said, if the dog kept barking, I’d call the cops, not shoot the dog. After all, the DOG is not at fault. The OWNERS are. THe dog doesn’t know any better!
c’mon nukeman, c’mon over…try to break in.
that dog at the foot of my bed will hear you, wake me up, so I can get a gun.
Dumbasses who break into homes in the south aren’t bulletproof either.
(generalization that all southern homes have guns made to add “flavor”)
Sorry to belabor a point, ponch, but if you are looking out the window, I suggest you are not observing how the beasts behave when you are not home. I have experienced dogs I thought were smart enough to know this kind of thing. And the herding dogs I’ve known have definitely been on the smart side.
I also suggest that certain factors affecting your dogs may be different on weekdays than on weekends. Timing and frequency of pedestrian and vehicle traffic. That kind of stuff. Sheep dogs are bred to be observant and to notice changes in their environment.
The reason I am harping on this is that my old dog rarely made any sound when I left him in the yard when I was home. But my neighbor maintained that he was a barking fiend all day long while the spouse and I were at work. The neighbor wasn’t a crank, and was being really polite about it. I was befuddled. Until one day I came home from work early and, walking from the train I heard an unholy racket. Guess whose dog was going nuts? And he was embarrassed as all get out when I caught him. Just my experience.
Lots comes down to whether or not you give a shit about your neighbors. It is unlikely a moderate amount of dog barking during the day will be considered a nuisance by your LEOs. I had a bitch of a time swearing out a complaint against a drywall storage yard down the block from me that had two guard dogs that would start barking at 2 in the morning, with no one around to tell them to be quiet. And then the attorney didn’t tell me when the court date came up, so it got dismissed for lack of a complaining witness. So if you just want to adopt the position that your neighbors can fuck themselves, go right ahead. I think your original offer of splitting the costs of the fence is extremely reasonable, and I applaud Peta’s suggestion that the one phobic gent change his parking space.
As a dog owner/lover it is somewhat unsettling when people completely overreact to my well-behaved dogs, like they’re gonna go all Cujo on them. But, I have to respect them and their rights, even if I don’t agree with them. And I acknowledge that all dogs are not as well behaved as mine, and all dog owners are not as responsible as I.
Oh yeah, rubber bands work well on the annoying babies and toddlers.
Just an observation: some dogs actually bark more (and more loudly) when locked up inside all day.
To truly know how your dogs (and neighbors for that matter) behave in/around your yard when you’re absent, you could always purchase an inexpense handheld tape recorder with voice activiation (seen 'em for $24.95-34.95). Set it up in the backyard with the dogs when you leave. It will activate and record when prompted to by noises. When you get home you can check to see if/how much your dogs barked. Its not foolproof, of course, since other noises will trigger it (cars/trucks going by, etc.), but you then you will have a more objective gauge of your dogs behavior when you’re not home, and even if not admissible, it will be one more piece of evidence in your favor that your dogs are not a nuisance. (Returning to the OP, it sounds as if your neighbor would define “nuisance” as “existing” with respect to your dogs.)
OK, Dinsdale, good points.
I’ll make a couple of assumptions:
I bought this certain breed of dog for several reasons. They are loyal, quiet, timid, but teritorrial and protective towards their owners. I’ve introduced neighbors to them, at first they are standoffish and bark, but then after I nudge them they come up to greet. COnverselly the day a guy jumped into my yard ar 4 in the morning, I let them out, and the was chased, they were snapping, barking, growling, etc.
the dogs hang out in the front of the yard (of course where the garden used to be) not in the back, where it’s wild, and slightly wooded. They only run back there when the people in the last three places walk to their cars that are parked against my fence. I can see this from their holes, toys, poop, etc. They may venture to the back, but in general they play in the front, waiting for us to come home.
My next door neighbor, and elderly lady, has never complained of any noise (she stays home all day). In fact she tells us how glad she is that we have the dogs, how much safer she feels, but she also tells us that she is dealthly terrified of dogs, this stemming from a bite when she was young. But I will ask her, in any case.
DOn’t get me wrong, I don’t usually tell my neighbors to go fuck themselves, I am rather friendly with most. So if you must know, the full history between us and the condo people stems from when I moved in a year ago. As I was cleaning the overgrown portion in the back, trimming and picking up the trash, the same guy, who is now the association president, walked up and made a comment of how glad he was that I was picking up the mess back there. How he hated a to look towards my yard, and how he couldn’t wait to put up a stockade fence. Then he walked away. Never mind that I stare at tailpipes, and the trash was from them. SO our history is not so smooth and pleasant.
I admit that I have used a BB gun on a cat that kept attacking my aging persian cat. But it didn’t maim the animal, Hell! it didn’t even draw blood. And in comparing people to animals, I think a BB gun is effective and better than having a dog or cat quarentined at animal control for behavior problems. At east they learn. True, if you had the tie and patience, and it was YOUR dog, you could spend time training it not to bark or be disruptive. But what should you do when it isn’t your animal?
Yeah, on the subject of weaponry. A friend had a skunk problem a couple of years back. Was unable to block off entry, etc., so he started staying up nights with his BB gun. BBs had no effect, so he stepped up to pellets. Again, no effect. The 12 guage did the trick nicely. (Right in the middle of town, at 3 in the morning. Cracked me up hearing his daily battles with this vermin.)
If they were killing your animals, you’d have every right to wait up for them and shoot them. You’d also be rendering a public service. Animals like that are a menace and are just one step away from mauling a person; the sooner someone puts a bullet in them, the better. Better six dogs with .30-06 slugs in their heads than some little kid disfigured by mauling.
I know everyone says THEIR dogs won’t hurt anyone, but the reality is that ANYBODY’S dogs will hurt someone, and the larger they are the more hurt they can do. And with all due respect to Ponch, who I think sounds like a responsible dog owner, timid and territorial ones are dangerous. I love dogs but I would not allow small children around animals like that and they sure as shit should not be loose (having a yard for them is perfect.) And dogs that run around killing other people’s animals, a la Pepperlandgirl’s asshead neighbours, are mondo dangerous.
I have dogs. They bark a little. It’s no big deal. May car makes noise when I start it; that’s no big deal either. If, on the other hand, I were to rev my engine at all hours of the night, that would be a problem. So it is with dogs. A little is fine; a lot is bad.
Absolutely true story; Neighbours of ours - we’ll call them the Smiths - when I was a kid had a chow. Chows are big, strong dogs and they’re mean as hell, or at least this one was. They let it wander the neighborhood. It barked at all hours of the night, chased people, bit people (thank God nobody got hurt too bad) and finally ate someone’s cat.
The police were summoned to the Smith’s home for maybe the fifth time concerning the dog, and said that they were going to have to do something, and could the Smiths kindly surrender him to the nice animal control officer until they could demonstrate that they would tie to dog up?
Fuck you, said the Smiths, our rights and our lawyer blah blah blah blah.
Fine, said the police officer. Thank you for your time.
He went away and twnty minutes later came back with two other cops. The dog was sitting on the porch. One of the cops took a rifle from the trunk of his cruiser and shot the goddamned dog right there on the front porch. Swear to God. And this is CANADA.
Perhaps tubagirl you haven’t heard of the case in Ann Arbor of the (now banned) frat initiation ceremony where they plebs line up in their undies while the other guy shoots at their crotchs with a BB gun (he swore was empty)?
The guy who landed in the hospital, with undisclosed injuries did not return to school, the guy who shot him faced a stiff (pardon) sentence.
BB guns can in fact be dangerous. Not always, maybe not even often, but certainly can be.
RickJay: Were the owners of that dog ever arrested or charged with anything? They should have been, IMHO.
Actually, she had mentioned her example before you jumped into this lil’ discussion. You responded to all the posts before yours (including her example involving the 6 dogs) with this sweeping generalization:
If you were only talking about the example with one german shepherd under the street light, then direct your comments towards the person who made that example. If you blast everyone in a thread for one person’s comments, don’t be surprised when people get upset.
Frankly, with your post count as high as it is, I’m a little surprised you haven’t learned this already.
I’m sorry, but I’m pretty sure that a tom cat has much thicker skin and fur to deflect a BB. Especially out of a non-pump BB gun. I’ve accidentally shot my brother in the ankle. It bled, but didn’t go further than 1mm in to his skin. I don’t think that the nether regions of men compare to the hide of an animal.
To be perfectly honest, BillyBoy (and, BTW, do you have any actual comments or will you be performing meta-analysis?), I was addressing my comments to both Homer and Democritus; I had scrolled right past plg’s first post, as I do with most of her posts, because I think she is a moron. Mea culpa.
The rest of my comments stand–the situation she described is not analogous to the situations described by Homer and Demo, and furthermore, she knows it. If someone else’s pets are on your property, you have the right to defend yourself, your pets, your property and your possessions. You should then press charges against the irresponsible jackasses who own the pets in question. If a dog is standing across the street barking, and you shoot it, you are an idiot. And a coward, too.
Frankly, with a post count as low as yours, I’d try to make some actual, germane comments in threads before I start leveling criticisms.
Research! Research is needed. Any voluneers??? 
Hmmm, somehow I missed this.
The only thing I really have to say is, I hope, if we’re ever neighbors, you keep your pets quiet.
BTW, since you’re criticizing other’s comparisons,
you might want to take a look at your own:
Please. :rolleyes:
Fair enough.
Also fair enough, although I don’t think anyone was trying to say that the two situations were perfectly analogous. Did someone say that they were and I missed it?
Ahh, what the hell, I’ll bite.
If you look at our registration dates, you’ll see that I registered just a few short months after you did. What the difference in post counts reflects, to me, is that while you spent the past year and a half spewing forth to this board every little thought that comes into your head, I chose to post only when I thought I had something worthwhile to say. Sniper rifle rather than a machine gun, if you will.
I’m also assuming that you have scoured the board for any and all other posts that I have made before asserting that I haven’t made any “actual comments” (my other posts must be what, virtual comments?). If this is true, speak up and I’ll be happy to continue that aspect of the conversation - otherwise, settle down, will ya?
I have cats, and they stay indoors. If we’re ever neighbors, and you lay a hand on one of my pets, I hope you can write with your feet. You’re going to need to.
Oh, I forgot–it’s only fun to abuse animals.
For me, these two statements pretty much sum it up. If you have a pet, be respectful of those around you, or be prepared to face the consequences. If your neighbor has a pet that’s bothering you, you better look for a peaceful solution first, because people who love their pets won’t stand idly by while you hurt them.
It’s never the pets that are the root of the problem. It’s the extreme reactions of people on both sides of the issue that do the damage.