But that wouldn’t stop someone from making the drastic and ill-advised leap of logic to thinking they had.
I’d go with that. While racism is alive and well, most people won’t wear it on their sleeves. “Lynch all the Niggers” bumper stickers are in short supply, even among the most racist of people. “Celebrate Diversity” stickers are far more common. I think that this particular sticker is poorly conceived, but I have strong doubts that the makers of it were conciously trying to promote racism. If nothing else, it would be bad for business.
The site you linked to has nothing to do with NBF’s history with the KKK. It does mention in the “facts” section that he became a Christian after the war. That site also says:
which is not true,
Incorrect assertions aside, he joined (not formed) the KKK in 1866, but thought it became too violent and left. That says nothing about his views on racism, just violence.
[/hijack]
Well,this sitesays that Forrest founded the Klan to protect Confederate widows and orphans, and that he disbanded both to protest violence, and because the Klan had been usurped to fight Reconstruction and act against blacks.
This site mentions specifically that:
I can’t remember the name of the Civil War history that I learned this from, and I can’t search for it very well at work because I keep getting sent to KKK sites, which are blocked.
Regards,
Shodan
I believe the Klan STARTED as a social club, but when they found that their costumes gave them a mysterious and intimidating reputation, then it all went down hill.
As for heritage-what kind of heritage is the flag attached to? It’s a symbol of treason and defeat-the South LOST. Why would they want to remember THAT?
Well, someone’s ignorance has been fought. Thanks.
(Aside: I broke 1000 posts and didn’t even notice!)
No.
Put me down as another who interpreted that sticker as “beating a black/gay/whatever person isn’t a hate crime, it’s a way of life down here”.
Thanks for the link, the very first GA flag stated this:
So…it was never intended to be a change from the “Stars and Bars” of the Confederacy. It was changed several more times, as you must have noticed, but always kept this, with the GA seal…in different variations.
For the Dukes of Hazzard Fan: The Dukes of Hazzard was set in a rural GA town, shot in GA (I think) and was the first TV show to ever hire an all-southern cast (all people actually born and raised in the Southern US). I always took the flag on the top of their car to be associated with the state flag. So from here, it depends on what you feel the flag means.
Maybe some of us Southerners, who weren’t alive in 1956, or 1879, didn’t get to chose the flag. The Confederacy wasn’t brought about solely by the desire of the Southern people to hold onto slavery, and the North’s willingness to let them free.
People in the South still are bitter about the war. I think it’s one of the saddest parts of our history as a nation. What the US Army did to the South as they went through was something that destroyed large amounts of the South’s history, legacy and economy.
~J
Actually, only the first season or two were shot in Georgia. After that, production was moved to California for budgetary reasons.
I can offer no defence for knowing that utterly useless factoid.
Damn you don’t have to go far to fight ignorance do ya ?
It is also a symbol of antebellum society. A society that not only endorsed slavery, but endorsed a culture of nearly feudal class structure. A society that greatly restricted constitutional freedoms. It was a society that had NOTHING to be proud about in todays idea of society. I would go on, maybe later, but it is late and I am tired.
Can I just say that this was the very type of thing I needed to read to make it worth having gotten out of bed today?
Thanks, Mockingbird, I’ll be using that as a sig if you don’t mind…
You may now resume your previously serious discussion.
Oh, whatever. The flag was changed in 1956 to become closer to the stars and bars specifically to protest desegregation. I was responding to the statement that the 1956 flag was “a flag of tradition.” The 1956 flag is a flag of racism.
The Confederacy’s whole reason for being was slavery. But that’s perhaps a topic for another thread.
Boo-hoo.
Definitely.
I don’t see how this is relevant, but I’ll play. If the South didn’t want their economy destroyed, they souldn’t have seceded. But what does that have to do with a racist bumper sticker or racist flags?
A lot has changed since the time when the TV series was made. Back then I guess the Confederate flag stood mostly for hicks and not bigots. No need to feel stupid. You probably know more about the South than I do about Canada. 
Also, notice that I specified Tennessee and not Georgia or the South in general.
“The Stars and Bars” is just a nickname for the Confederate flag.
I don’t really see what the big deal about the bumper sticker is. As others have already commented, it is not likely that someone would advertise such blatant racism out in the open. It’s far more likely that they intended to display cultural pride WITHOUT offending people that dislike the Confederate flag (for its association with slavery and what not). That was my first impression of it, though it is poorly worded if so many people misunderstood it.
By the way, I don’t know much about the South, but I do recall from a psychology course that Southerners tend to have a greater sense of honor and courtesy than northerners (note that this was the explanation used to account for the greater rate of non-stranger murders in the South).
And I’m sure there must be other Southern cultural aspects, such as food, dance, music, etc., right? Or does that tend to be more regional than any kind of umbrella “Southern” concept?
Any Southerners or cultural experts want to relieve me of my ignorance about what exactly constitutes the Southern identity?
There is a certain segment, a small minority, of the Southern population who take great pleasure in advertising their racism and in trying to intimidate others by being blatant.
(Some of you who have read about my Southernness may want to pass on this part.) I am an eleventh generation Southerner. The 9th generation was a Confederate soldier. Being Southern is ingrained in me. But even dyed-in-the-wool Southerners can’t agree about exactly what constitutes the Southern identity.
An Arky posted a good description for starters:
It is also about hospitality, football (especially the SEC), an interest in the Civil War, a slower pace, humor, simplicity, family lines, hunting, fishing, quilting, literature, an ability to make fun of ourselves, showing up in times of trouble and, for most I hope, doing the honorable thing. But even that doesn’t begin to scratch the surface.
One book captures a lot of Southern style and that is Midnight in the Garden of Good and Evil. The movie doesn’t capture it at all. It is a true story set it my favorite Southern city – Savannah, Georgia. If you read it, you will understand us a little better. And it is far removed from The Dukes of Hazzard.
BTW, I have been to that garden – which is a cemetery. People from Savannah are so hospitable that if you die while you are visiting, there is a special vault in that cemetery where you will rest until other arrangements can be made.
Some people think of the Confederate States as being “the South.” Others would include Kentucky and Maryland. You would think that Florida is “Southern” since it is our Southern-most state. And the Northern part of Florida does qualify. The Southern part of Florida is not really part of the Southern heritage in many opinions. (Many Northerners move there.)
Contrary to what many people believe, most Southerners in the 18th and 19th Centuries did not own slaves. And some fought the Civil War over the rights of the states to govern themselves. Also, we were not the only area of the country that had slaves or that has had racist attitudes and racial problems.
This is just anecdotal, but my husband and I have spent the last several Christmases with transplanted Northerners in Cary, North Carolina. The couple we visit there are embarrassingly bigoted dispite their Ivy League educations. (That is neither typical of Northerners or of people who live in Cary, btw.)
There is another kind of prejudice in the South that is more subtle than the Confederate flag-waving, but African-Americans and astute white citizens pick up on it easily. There is often a resentment toward Blacks who are self-confident and assertive. Bigots need to feel superior to someone and when people of color don’t cooperate, it makes these whites quietly angry. They think they are not prejudiced, but they are.
I am not a historian or a cultural expert on the South. This has just been my take on what it’s like.
Look, I dislike the message that I feel is inherent in the bumper sitcker. But you folks that are just here to rag on the South are cordially invited to kiss my shiny white bumper.
If you choose to discount an entire region based on politics and prejudices that the majority of the South’s residents agree are outdated and wrong, that’s your prerogative. But don’t display your ignorance here.
It is possible to be proud of some portions of your heritage and disown others. It’s not an all-or-nothing situation.
I think it’s weird that some people in this thread (Mockingbird, for one) were like “I’m going to assume that the person with that bumper sticker on their car takes the most extreme position possible in relation to it, and that pisses me off.”
Why is that reasonable?
TaxGuy, I don’t know if you live in the South yourself, or if you’re familiar with the nearly ubiquitous nature of the Confederate flag in this area.
You see the flag or its representation almost everywhere down here. As I said, I have no particular beef with the flag per se, so this doesn’t bother me. I interpret it as a shorthanded way of saying “I’m a Southerner and proud of it.” To many people, the Stars and Bars symbol doesn’t necessarily represent the flag itself, but pride in the South.
Because of that, my interpretation of the message on the bumper sticker leans more toward Mockingbird’s than, say, spooje’s. Zoe hit it on the button: “There is a certain segment, a small minority, of the Southern population who take great pleasure in advertising their racism and in trying to intimidate others by being blatant.”
In other words, I saw the Stars and Bars on the bumper sticker as strictly a design element. (I wish I could find a representation of this sticker on the Net, but thus far my searches have been fruitless.) The words themselves were separated from the flag symbol.
My father-in-law is an avid gun collector, and as such he attends many weekend gun shows. I’ve tagged along with him on some of these excursions, and it would amaze you the crap people sell at these things. I’ve seen the “Protocols of the Elders of Zion” pamphlets, KKK literature, Nazi literature, and other blatantly racist stuff. I bet I could find this sticker (or one very similar to it) at one of these gun shows, and I would further bet the people selling it would tell me my interpretation of its meaning is the correct one.
All this is my speculation, of course.