I’ve seen the Confederate battle flags arround, yes they are offensive, but I’ve learned to deal with it. Yesterday I saw one with a big “It’s heritage not hate” across it in Big black letters. That really pissed me off. What will they have next, Swastikas with “It’s not hate it heritage” in big red letters? Why do people have to show off their ignoprance with snappy slogans on flags? I was so offended that I’ve made a late new years resolution. “If I see anyone with one of those flags, I will go out of my way to phsyically assault them”. Anyone else with me?
Nope.
Sorry; putting “It’s heritage, not hate” in bold letters on that flag seems to me as a good idea should you have the desire to wave that flag around. I don’t see why that action in particular pisses you off so much.
Unless, of course, you consider that desecration of the flag, in which case I could understand. I’ll back away from you slowly, but I’d understand.
JMCJ
“Y’know, I would invite y’all to go feltch a dead goat, but that would be abuse of a perfectly good dead goat and an insult to all those who engage in that practice for fun.” -weirddave, set to maximum flame
No, I’m not with you. I wish those ignorant morons would realize how stupid they sound when they say those types of things, but violently confronting them and/or removing the flags is exactly the kind of reaction they want to get.
I am from the south and I have pride in my own heritage, but it’s not pride at the expense of fellow citizens. The flag issue is very simple - I agree that the original intent of the CSA was not necessarily to promote slavery, nor was the flag conceived as a racist symbol, nor was the CSA inherently an evil or bad society. But, the fact is that slavery was a MAJOR piece of the puzzle. But certain fringe groups and other inbreds have co-opted the flag for their own nefarious purposes and they have succeeded in influencing the general perception of the flag today, and if it makes certain other people uncomfortable, then we should be respectful of their sensitivities.
So I kind of agree with you Oldscratch, but I think they’ll eventually just go away if we ignore them instead.
Oldscratch, I have to point out on thing that pisses me off and that’s the comparison between the CSA Battle flag and the Nazi swatstika. Please let me know when the CSA condemed to death millions of people for religious beleifs.
What really pisses me off is the false notion that if you outlaw and eliminate all vestiges of the past, your future will be better. Have you ever been to a civil war re-enactment? Does it piss you off that men still dress in confederate uniforms?
Let me know when you plan on burning all the old plantation mansions down. After all, aren’t these a symbol of America’s slave holding past?
The truth of the matter is that the battle flag doesn’t represent a nation or it’s practices. The battle flag represents an army.
It’s a sad thing when people want to forget an army and what it fought for. To the south, the Civil War wasn’t a defense of slavery (the slave weren’t freed until late in the war), but a fight for independence. The men in the Confederate armies fought for an idea of freedom.
I find the X that blacks were offensive. But I don’t try to outlaw this symbol of a racist, black leader because that is the most unamerican thing you can do.
Should the battle flag be flying above a state capitol? I don’t think so. But should you keep someone from flying it above their home. NO! If you do that, then it’s a step towards the loss of all freedom we enjoy in this country.
I gotta agree with John Corrado. Putting those words on the flag is a good way to explain how you feel. Fact is, this country is made up of different heritages. Besides, the symbols on the Confedrate flags and the swastika symbol are two different things altogether IMO.
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Yours truly,
aha
Well aren’t we one happy bunch. The Confederate Flag stands for different things to different people, depending on who you ask. Being from the South, I know what it means to me, as I’ve explained in several threads before and won’t go into again on this one. It fries me when people put ‘labels’ on issues without bothering to ask some simple questions. So making me from the South automatically makes me a bigot, racist, and religion fanatic. How sad that we miss out on so many wonderful people and experiences because some people have closed minds.
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So the confederate flag means different things to different people. I’ll tell you what it means to most people. It says “I’m a big ol racist redneck”. YOu don’t like that? Too bad, cause that’s how people see you. It’s the same with the Swastika, I can wear a shirt with a big swastika on it, and claim that it’s part of my Parsi heritage, that it’s a non-racist symbol that’s been used in India for Millenia. You know what? No one cares. It was co-opted by the Nazi’s and will always be co-opted by the Nazi’s. Same with the confederate battle flag. You want to celebrate your Southern heritage? Find another symbol!
history repeats itself, the first time as tragedy, the second time as farce - Karl Marx
I was born in Richmond, Virginia and raised 10 miles outside of the city limits. I am sick to death of hearing all this. I am tired of the “do it for Dixie” attitude and I’m tired of the constant whining from African Americans about everything Confederate. One side is constantly goading the other. If it isn’t the African Americans demanding that a bridge be renamed it’s the Yee Haws insisting that a picture of Robert E. Lee be hung on the flood wall. Fully knowing that their actions will create some kind of debate. Recently the County of Chesterfield declared April “Confederate Heritage Month”. What a bunch of morons! What happened? Some black preacher in Richmond, called for a boycott of the malls. Who came down to visit and lend his support? David Duke himself! Yeah the poobah came to town. We had a few little words between the factions, and there were some white folks making asses out of themselves by actually coming out to see this guy, but it finally blew over.
Yes, the Civil War happened around here. I played in old earthworks when I was a kid. My mother dragged us to every old house and battlefield from here to Gettysburg. I sure as hell know what Robert E. Lee looks like, Ma has a picture of him hanging in the dining room! My middle name is Lee for God’s sake! But only complete rednecks, poor white trash, and biker types fly Confederate flags on top of their houses. Their “love of heritage” is a completely selfish notion that if they hang onto the “glory of the South” then the negro will not be able to take over. Don’t spout heritage to me, I know you people, I grew up around you. You hate blacks and how they have wrestled a position in our local governments so you hide behind the flag and call it heritage. You can tell these Yankees anything you want I know you. And as for the African American’s here, shame on you! Shame on you for wasting your political power to even address these idiots! We still have strong, healthy black men unemployed here, they could use your help and guidance. We still have terrible crime in the projects do to poverty and drug abuse. Why waste your precious time and assests fighting a bunch of rednecks when you could be cleaning up these neighborhoods?
I’m tired of this debate. It makes no sense. It is bigotry, plain and simple, from both sides. You can argue otherwise all you want but I know you people, I’ve lived with you all my life.
Needs2know…Oh and by the way…Let’s not doze the mansions…while I did not develop an appreciation for the nostalgia of the grand old South…I did however develop a strong appreciation for Greek Revival architecture. It is Ok to appreciate the building for what it is isn’t it? Not what it stands for, or is that what this debate is all about? Damn me honey chile!
Well hearing that from someone who probably knows nothing about the South at all, and considering that you consider all Southerners ‘rednecks’, we really don’t give a rat’s ass what you think the flag stands for. Why should I find another symbol just because it offends your closed mind. Why don’t you just turn your head when you pass one? Same difference.
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oldscratch said:
What’s wrong with trying to co-opt the old one back? Should we just claim defeat to the Klan, saying, “Well, that’s theirs, now; we’ll just mosy on over to this new symbol and hope they don’t steal it from us.”
If, on the other hand, we can take back the old symbol, infuse it with new messages- cultural heritage, a sense of community and friendship, the ideal of an integrated, hamormonious New South- isn’t that a better solution in the long run?
JMCJ
“Y’know, I would invite y’all to go feltch a dead goat, but that would be abuse of a perfectly good dead goat and an insult to all those who engage in that practice for fun.” -weirddave, set to maximum flame
Pardon me while I bow out of this particular thread. I should know better, but sometimes ya just get the urge. After all, we are supposed to be fighting ignorance.
** Sigh. So many men, so few who can afford me ** Original by Wally
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profile by UncleBeer
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I said nothing about people from the South. I was talking about people who display the flag. Up here in Northern CA, there are quite a few people who are not from the South yet still display it.
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It’s not just me who finds the flag offensive, but the majority of the population.
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The reason I won’t turn my head is the same reason why you shouldn’t just ignore neo-nazi’s. Like the swastika it’s a hurtful symbol to many people, and an offensive symbol to most people.
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In regards to reclaiming the symbol from the racists, won’t happen. They will still use it and it’s linked in most peoples minds.
DOH! We all got hooked! Oldscratch must have been using a whole lot of fishing poles to get so many of us so fast, but I guess the water’s murkier here in the pit and it’s harder to see the lure for what it is. But a troll is still a troll, even in the pit.
I forgot that all white southerners are racist! And all of the young men and boys who died in the war were no good hateful bigots, so good riddance I say! I was so blind and I’m glad Olscratch was here (waiting) to tell me so.
Have fun Oldscratch! I’m out. You had me going there are first! 
Here’s an idea. Why doesn’t everyone who wants to celebrate their “Southern Heritage” adopt the actual Confederate flag rather than the Confederate battle flag? Better yet, why don’t you display the First confederate flag, it has no negative connotation whatsoever? Never did I state that all white southerners are racist. I feel no such thing. Not all white southerners insits on displaying that stupid fucking flag either. A lot of them call it for what it is, a sign of racism and oppresion.
Well, how different is this from a couple of tee-shirt designs I have seen while attending Southern Rock concerts in Richmond, VA, Raleigh, NC and even Columbus, OH:
A tee-shirt with the Confederate flag with the words, "You wear your X… I’LL WEAR MINE!"
A tee-shirt with the words, “I have a dream too…” with the a picture of the Capitol Building sporting a Confederate flag on top of it.
So, how is it that detractors of the symbol cannot show their displeasure with the commentary mentioned in the OP, but those in favor of it can use racism (that only a blind apologist wouldn’t say is there) as a way of showing their support?
Notice, I am not saying whether the flag is good or bad here. But how is one show of a person’s feelings on the matter so bad while the other is acceptable?
And do I really have to mention the irony that Confederate flag supporters (not all, but these folks) show by sporting racist statements while trying to argue that it’s “just a symbol” and not about race?
Yer pal,
Satan
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Hello friends,
I am just checking in to try to cure some ignorance. Namely, my own.
My understanding is this:
*The so called Confederate Flag is in fact not 1 of the flags used by the Confederacy.
It was actually the battle flag used by Joe Johnston.
The popularity of this flag did not begin until the Civil Rights Movement did.*
Is my understanding correct?
Peace
Gosh oldscratch, I read your posts in the “What’s Wrong with Communism” thread. (Your take: not a damn thing.)
I have to tell you that I find your flag, the Hammer and Sickle much more offensive than the Confederate flag. Shall I assault you if I catch you waving it?
I’m sorry, but I can’t let this one go. danielnsmith proclaimed:
<snort> Hitler didn’t kill Jews because of their religion, pally, he killed them because of their ethnicity. Their race. Same as he did with the Romany, the Serbs, the Armenians. Or do you think that a Jew who converted to Christianity could have gotten a “Get out of Dachau Free” card?
I’m not saying it’s fair to equate the CSA with Nazi Germany. You just ain’t gonna prove a point that way, Daniel. Try again.
John Corrado asked:
As oldscratch mentioned, if we want to take the Southern Cross back, why not the swastika as a symbol of peace? Or the gyrfalcon as a symbol of exploration? Or the hammer and sickle as a sign of laborer’s solidarity? How about Roman Army recreationists reclaiming the Christian cross as a symbol of degradation?
-andros-
ummmmmmm. Since I don’t wave it and find it an offensive symbol of a represive government. Go ahead. I find the Confederate flag more offensive personally. Obviously you didn’t read my posts very closely.
2sense, you are indeed under a bit of a misaprehension. But only a little one.
The First National Flag of the Confederacy was the “Stars and Bars” and did not in fact incorporate the design of the Battle Flag. It was used from 1861 to 1863 and was dropped in favor of the “Stainless” because it looked too much like the US Flag in battle.
The Second National Flag had the battle flag in the corner and a field of white (thus called “Stainless”). It was adopted May 1, 1863 and used until just before the end of the war, when people realized the white field looked too much like a surrender rag. Oops.
I can’t remember off the top of my head when the battle flag (the square, white-bordered “Southern Cross”) was first used, but General Beauregard demended Congress adopt a single flag to reduce the battlefield confusion that was prevalent early in the war. The Confederate Naval Jack was rectangular without the white border, and I believe this is the flag in question in South Carolina (but I could be wrong, of course). It was used by some infantry, mostly coastal, IIRC.
-andros-