Just to let everyone know, the annual farce that is the Flag Desecration Amendment will be coming through the Senate as soon as this Tuesday, March 28.
This issue has been brought up here in Great Debates in the past (don’t have the link handy), but it rarely rises to the level of debate. Most of the folks here, regardless of their opinion on flag burning itself, see this amendment as the crock that it is. (If you feel differently, set it up–we’ll be happy to knock it down for you. )
As usual, the vote will probably be close, since no senator wants to be seen as “supporting flag burners”. Therefore, I would urge you to fire off a quick note to your favorite Senator, letting him know how you feel.
In reality, it will probably never be ratified by the States, but it still pisses me off.
Dr. J
PS: One of my own senators is Mitch McConnell, famous for opposing campaign finance reform as an affront to “our right to free speech”. I let him know that if he votes “yes” on this amendment, I will be happy to call him on his lack of internal consistency.
“Seriously, baby, I can prescribe anything I want!” -Dr. Nick Riviera
And just in case you don’t know, the amendment wouldn’t outlaw flag burning per se. It would allow states to pass laws against flag desecration, even if those laws would normally violate the First Amendment.
What kind of laws would states pass? Lots of states have already passed such laws, only to have them overturned because they violated the First Amendment. Some of these are way over the top. One, for instance, forbade possession of any depiction of the desecration of a flag - which would make movies like “Malcolm X”, “Born on the Forth of July”, and “Fear and Loathing in Los Vegas” illegal. :rolleyes:
I can just see it now - a flag desecretion amendment is installed, then, each election year, the candidates try to outduel one another on who is tougher on the issue … each step of the way further eroding the rights of individuals and groups to protest. (Displaying the flag upside down, etc.)
Any law that tries to tell people how to think and feel is wrong. To paraphrase Dennis Miller: The flag is not sacred; people didn’t fight in wars and die for the flag. What the flag stands for is sacred, and is what Americans fought and died for – freedom. Including the freedom to burn the fucking flag!
“We are here for this – to make mistakes and to correct ourselves, to withstand the blows and to hand them out.” Primo Levi
I do not recall any wording in the Pledge of Allegance where a stated “love” of the country is present. I do not even believe it is implied in any way.
What the Pledge does, in spirit, state is that you pledge allegiance to this country and the principles that govern and unite us as a nation.
Personally, I love this country… even when I disagree with Senator X or President Y’s policies. The fact that I can disagree, can express myself in outrage at times, etc., is WHY I love this country.
This will get me flamed but… if you don’t love it, then get the hell out! I’m sick of these people (not aimed at you Karma since I don’t know you and you beliefs) who whine about how much they hate America while nestling right up to the “freedoms and rights” which allow them to express such a sentiment.
If you don’t love mom’s drinking problem, leave the family!!
I love America. I also want to see what is great about it stay great and what is not great to become great. Much of our greatness, I contend, comes from the freedom of expression, even the expression of ideas we find repellant/loathesome/wrong/icky. I’m unlikely to burn a flag, but I think that you have the right to do so. I’m unlikely to follow the Pope’s teachings, but I think you have the right to do so. I’m unlikely to “pledge allegiance” (I think of it as idolatry), but I think you have the right to do so.
This will get me flamed but… if you don’t love it, then get the hell out! I’m sick of these people who whine about how much they hate America while nestling right up to the “freedoms and rights” which allow them to express such a sentiment.
Sounds to me like your the one having trouble “loving” it, so why don’t you leave?
na na , na na na
KarmaComa - I know you are not in this country, part of my reason for specifically stating the comment was not directed at you.
RM Mentock - Thanks for posting a link to the Pledge of Allegiance. I was going to type it out but that is SO much more efficient.
Bucky - I think we are saying the same thing, just differently! I too love this country, as stated, and that people can say things that I disagree with, loathe, find intolerable, disgusting, etc., is a part of loving this country. Because some “leftist-liberal” wants to burn the flag doesn’t mean I hate this country… or because some “right-wing christian coalition conservative” wants to force legislative morality also will not result in me stating in any form that I “hate this country”.
Glad you are staying Bucky…
<cue Neil Diamond’s “Coming to America”>
…they’re coming to America…
C’mon Karma, you know you want to…
…they’re coming to America TODAY!
<fade out Neil Diamond’s “Coming to America”>
I do not see where you can attribute that I am having trouble "loving it.
My original post was regarding KarmaComa’s statement that it was a “crock of shit” to force children to say they love America. Something the Pledge of Allegiance does not do.
My mini-rant was at people who take advantage of the freedom of expression this country allows then turn around and say they hate the same country that gives them that freedom. I’m sure I could have worded it better - but give me a break, I’m a product of the American educational institution.
)
I too love this country, as stated, and that people can say things that I disagree with, loathe, find intolerable, disgusting, etc., is a part of loving this country. Because some “leftist-liberal” wants to burn the flag doesn’t mean I hate this country… or because some “right-wing christian coalition conservative” wants to force legislative morality also will not result in me stating in any form that I “hate this country”.