What the fuck are you talking about Skippy? Do you think a football team constitutes a conglomerate or individual players? If you sanction the team, how are individuals not affected?
Current players were punished by the sanctions placed on the program. Past players were punished by the vacating of wins.
It is important to those players, and you’ve said, if I read you right, that they weren’t deserving of punishment.
They were important to me as a fan. I struggle to see my complicity in Sandusky’s crimes. And I was a fan of Paterno and of Sandusky - AS coach and defensive coordinator. I loved Linebacker U. Their behavior regarding the abuse of children was despicable and heartbreaking.
You know, Hentor, as an Illini fan and natural hater of Penn St., even before they came to the B10, I was so happy to see them not only participate in, but win a bowl game this year. What the team got jabbed with was patently unfair and I assure you that every idiot arguing for sanctions would argue against them if they experienced the same.
Paterno was mailing it in for years, he doesn’t deserve the record.
Penn State tried to sweep child rape under the rug to protect a football team, it doesn’t deserve the record either.
The fans and the university have been so pathetically fixated on getting this stupid record back, why didn’t the children victimized by Sandusky merit this kind of staunch advocacy? They definitely don’t deserve the record.
They very much did, and do. Is someone saying otherwise?
Well, Joe Pa died knowing he was disgraced. He’s not around to feel himself “rehabilitated”. Good.
The NCAA meanwhile has given back something whose value is the emotional satisfaction of the fans and alumni… that is to say: something utterly worthless.
That, and the fact that Sandusky will die in prison is the only good thing about this whole clusterfuck.
I’m sick of it!
One of the reason the crimes were allowed to continue as long as they did was because the football program was a sacred cow. The actions of the AD and Paterno showed that they considered the prestige of the team to be higher than the well-being of the boys being abused by Sandusky. The rallying of the Penn St. community around Paterno and the team indicate that many in Happy Valley feel the same way.
To me the penalties to the football team were justified as an attempt to slay the sacred cow. Even now can we be sure that someone will not look the other way when the football team is involved in a crime?
Interesting coincidence: Joe’s record of 409 wins is reinstated.
Formula 409 was used to clean up the showers after Jerry was done.
includes little nuts.
SUUUUUUURE your an Illini fan, SUUUUUUUUURE you are a Penn State hater.:rolleyes:
Your posts remind me of so many Penn State fan posts-----you shout down the accuser, call their arguments stupid, and then if that doesn’t work, split hairs on every single little point, while ignoring the big picture: if this happened at your school, Penn—EEERRRRR “Illinois” wouldn’t you be ashamed?
To those of you who are glad that the wins have been restored, three questions.
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Are you opposed to all NCAA sanctions against teams based on individual acts - for example USC having wins and scholarships taken away and a two year bowl ban because Reggie Bush took money? After all, why punish everyone for one bad apple’s actions?
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In the story linked to below, Sue Paterno is quoted as saying, "We’re going to still keep looking for the truth to get everything right for everybody, because we still have Tim, Gary, and Graham that have to be exonerated in all this,”. So, in your opinion, does no one at Penn State have any legal responsibility for what happened, either the crimes or the coverup?
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And my own personal litmus test - do you think that Joe should have been fired, if for nothing else allowing such a thing to happen in his building, on his watch?
By the way, for those not wanting to click the link, it includes a picture of students carrying a life sized cardboard cut out of Joe up the stairs of Old Main at Penn State.
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No, given your example. The crime was one committed by leaders of the team for the benefit of the team. The Sandusky case, I’m sure you understand, is completely different.
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Of course not, and I doubt you’ll find words from me arguing that. However, voiding the wins does nothing to exact any justice for the victims from those who perpetuated the systematic coverup. It’s purely a PR move, one which makes people feel good by punishing people not involved in the crime or the coverup.
Again, use the BK scenario. If Sandusky were an ex-Burger King manager who would get after-hours access to his old store for the purposes of child rape, what sense does it make to erase the working histories of all BK-employees?
- Yes, he should have been fired. Should a 19yo be told that his efforts in 2004 no longer officially existed? Uh… no.
I don’t see why some people are so worried about the feelings of the players on those ‘rape win’ teams. In the strange world of the NCAA, players are often hurt by rulings for things they got caught up in but were not responsible for.
The Bush case is different I grant, but just to remind you it consisted of Bush taking money from an agent who was hoping to gain him as a client. The team was not involved, and in fact it was USC who asked for an investigation when rumors arose. Bush was already a member of the team, so I am not sure exactly what benefit the team got from the agent’s payments to Bush, which is one reason I choose that example as opposed to the many examples of booster payments made to players with the knowledge of the team.
And a follow up to your BK example of workers having their work records expunged - name me one Penn State player who was not drafted by the NFL because the games he played in didn’t count? Show me any harm done to anyone outside of the record book. Were the tapes of those games erased?
Ohio State had all its wins in 2010 and the Sugar Bowl win over Arkansas vacated because of tattoos, but whether the wins officially exist or not, I watched them happen on TV.
Penn State fans can still have the positive memories of their wins on the field, I just don’t think they and the university and its cronies should be able to venerate the holder of a tainted record, a man who stuck his head in the sand and kept punching a time card 10 years after he should have retired.
This is incorrect presumption with no factual or logical foundation.
What accuser? The victim? Please indicate where I have done this. You’re an idiot if you think that is true.
Whose arguments?
Even if I did attend Penn St. at the time, why would I be personally ashamed? If I were the perpetrator or any of the people who knew of the abuse and either remained silent or outright covered it up, I might be ashamed; there would at least be reason for it. But how is that connected to the football players? Why must they feel shame, as you’re implying? And even if they should, and did, feel shame, that is ignoring the overall argument that the football players were unjustly penalized for the actions of their administration. You are not arguing against that, so yes, your arguments are stupid.
See? More name calling and hair splitting.
Not talking about the football players. Talking about the students rioting after Joe Paterno got fired. Talking about all the whining and complaining Penn Staters have been using to finally bully the NCAA into reversing its decision, then partying when they got the Bowl ban and Paterno’s win record reversed. The politicians and revisionist historians who have tried to rewrite history and whitewash Penn State’s role in the entire scandal.
I have yet to hear ONE Penn Stater say "you know what? Jerry Sandusky happened because football was more important than kicking a child molester off our campus and reporting him to the police. Im ashamed of what Penn State was involved with, and accept our punishment. God help us all. "
You sound just like them. Penn State just does not GET IT. Bunch of football obsessed weirdos who rank football over child abuse. Limburger smells better.
Well, I am talking about the football players. Always have been. If you’re not talking about the football players, then you’re making the wrong argument to the wrong person. If the students rioted after Paterno got fired, then they’re idiots.
You’re being dumb.
I don’t see why you should be concerned about the football players. Learning at age 19 that:
A: the cover up is worse than the crime, and
B: You can be screwed over by the arbitrary actions and decisions of often corrupt superiors
are both much more valuable life lessons than what they were picking up in whatever crap general studies class the team is allowed to sign up for.