I’ve been tempted by this since last year when I heard of it on the boards and on amazon. I just looked again and noticed “The First Noel/Mary Mary” which put me in mind of “Mary Mary why you buggin’?” which seemed an interesting counterpart to “The First Noel”. 
Hah! No, “Mary Mary” sounds like an old gospel carol (first verse below). That’s the one that’s most ‘messed with’ (the “First Noel” part is fairly modernized) but it’s really great, one of my favorites on the CD–really shows off her voice. And I’m ridiculously picky about these things, so trust me, you should buy it! (Also anything by Loreena McKennitt.)
Mary Mary
Had a little baby
Hmmm yes, pretty little baby
Hmm hmm, welcome little baby
Glory be to the newborn King
Oooh, and the First Noel/Mary, Mary gives me chills (in a good way!)
That’s really funny. Thank you.
So, why does he keep stuffing candy in my socks?
Now that it’s halfway through November, I’m willing to deal with Christmas music.
But I went to the grocery store and they were out of Christmas Oreos. They didn’t even have a space for them. They had Christmas Oreos at Halloween. Why don’t they have them now? Holiday Oreos are the absolute best, just the perfect porportion of creme and cookie. This is unforgiveable.
mmm… oreos…
Then you’ll have Shit on a Stick!
Cause he’s got a foot fetish?
Meh. I hate overtly religious cards of any sort. However, I generally send out neutral “holiday cards” that just happen to have a pretty winter motif on the front and I write my own message on the blank area inside. I’m only half a step away from going to completely blank note cards for all occasions.
Went to IKEA today, and was enthused by the lack of “OMG, CHRISTMAS!!!” that’s been everywhere else. It made shopping in Old Time Pottery so much more painful afterward; half of their store is Christmas themed for the better half of the year, and at this time of year, there are not only tacky animatronic Christmas things on display that play their own music, but there’s bad Christmas music on the overhead. Yikes!
I was going to start a thread on this, but I may as well put it here. Please, people who sing and record Christmas songs, learn the darn words! Don’t assume you know them because you’ve heard them all your lives! And don’t rewrite them to suit yourself, even if you do think it sounds more like modern. I really do think your audience can understand slightly unfamiliar phrases.
The wise men didn’t “travel so far”, darnit. And “little baby” doesn’t rhyme with “I am a poor boy, too”. In a song about seeing Jesus in the manger you could probably actually use some form of his name without a problem.
I don’t do Christmas cards, and I’m not Christian, but I do sympathize gigi; there really ought to be some actual religious cards available for what is, after all, a religious holiday.
In fact, just about the only thing I even begin to agree with conservative/fundamentalist Christians about is the concern about overblown carefully secular commercialist modern American Christmas. It’s way outta control.
But Christmas really isn’t a Christian holiday; it’s a pagan holiday that the early church co-opted with some success, but now its basic nature is coming back.
And it was never a very important religious holiday, anyhow.
That all depends on where you sit. I am a Christian and Christmas to me certainly is a Christian holiday, due to that whole “birth of Christ” thing. It has secular aspects and does not need to be celebrated in a religious way, but I think you’d be hard-pressed to argue that it is by definition “not a Christian holiday.”
Now, I am not trying to hijack this thread for a Paganism v. Christianity debate. A holiday noted mostly for middle european pagan symbolism that was adopted for a liturgical holiday of little importance until Dickens celebrated it for feasting and family and gifting is not, to my mind, a Christian Holiday.
It has Christian aspects and I support them, but Christians don’t get full rights to it.
But I wish you happy holidays and freedom from 24/7 Holiday music.
I wonder if Saudi Arabia could market itself as a place to come to escape from Christmas. And presidential primaries.
Actually, nearly everybody had some sort of Winter Solstice celebration. I completely concur that a lot of the secular holiday’s trimmings are pagan in origin.
But the date for Christmas as Jesus’s Birthday came about through a bit of weird mysticism relating to Jesus being incarnate for exactly 33 years, from Annunciation to Crucifixion, both of which were supposed to have fallen on March 25 (the actual event, not necesssarily the celebration). Nine months from March 25 falls nicely just after the Solstice, on December 25.
People mix up the fact that it’s a church holiday of long standing with the big-deal secular celebration, which yes, is largely a 19th Century event in America – don’t forget that the Puritans did not believe in holidays or feasts, by and large.
That’s really not for you to say, is it? My family celebrates the Feast of Advent leading up to Christmas. On Christmas Eve, we read the Nativity Story and attend midnight church services. It’s that whole “birth of the Son of God” thing that makes it religious to us, regardless of whether it is an amalgam of pagan and Christian traditions, which it is, as is Easter. And as for Dickens instigating Christmas as a time for “feating and family and gifting,” Christians have celebrated “the twelve days of Christmas” (the period from Christmas Eve to Epiphany) for just those purposes for more than a thousand years. I never asserted that “Christians get full rights to it,” especially considering its many secular aspects, but to assert as a universal statement that Christmas “really isn’t a Christian holiday” really needs an IYO rider. Parts of it are secular – yule logs, gifts, rockin’ around the Christmas tree – but parts of it are religious, and whether the holiday as a whole is or is not religious depends on how it is celebrated, and with what intent. I’m not saying it has to be a Christian holiday to you; I’m just saying you don’t really get to declare that it’s not a Christian holiday for anyone other than you.
Jodi, can you explain what you are trying to argue with me about?
Christians adopted an existing celebration for a lesser religious holiday. The Jewish holiday at the same time of year increased in secular importance in response to the widespread celebration of Christmas. Both Christians and Jews celebrate powerful symbols of hope [birth, light] at the beginning of the most difficult time of year [in the Northern Hemisphere, above the tropics …]; neither holiday is of primary religious importance.
This is good and fine; cultures change. And change again; the pagan roots of the holiday were never completely lost, and they are coming to the forefront again.
Remember, my response was to the attitude that the ‘commercialization’ of Christmas has resulted in not being able to buy religious holdiay cards with prepackaged sentiments [I hate greeting cards].
[It was directed to whiterabbit and gigi, who have shown no diagreement with it, and was not meant as an attack on Christmas, but as an assurance that the world is not going to hell in a hand basket].
One more thing:
“Saturnalia The ancient Roman seven-day festival of Saturn, which began on December 17.”
“At his festival, the Saturnalia, held at first on Dec. 17 but later extended for several days thereafter, gifts were exchanged, schools and courts were closed, war was outlawed, and slaves and masters ate at the same table.”
“Holly used to be employed by the early Christians at Rome to decorate churches and dwellings at Christmas; it had been previously used in the great festival of the Saturnlia, which occurred at the same season of the year. The pagan Romans used to send to their friends holly-sprigs, during the Saturnalia, with wishes for their health and well-being.”
“The date of Christmas coincides closely with the winter solstice in the Northern hemisphere, a time of rejoicing among many ancient cultures.”
I have to go cook a turkey.
Absolutely. The problem is that it’s also the place to come to escape from alcohol, mingling with anyone of the opposite sex, mingling with anyone of the same sex in a sexual way, movies, and any religion you might be fond of unless it’s Islam.
I remember a year or two ago the Saudi’s announced a drive to promote tourism (almost typed terrorism by mistake, but I caught it). It didn’t succeed much. Too many travelers who don’t vacation to enjoy a more austere lifestyle.
Sorry, that’s just because I was away from the computer. Your premise is that a winter celebration was coopted into Christmas and is now being “taken back”? I can’t agree there.
Not to belabor the point, but there are religious cards available in volume, just not loosy. It really surprised me that of the hundreds of cards available loose, there weren’t say, five, or a few percentage points of them available for the “vanishing” proportion of people still celebrating the Christian feast day.
The new buzzword of the season seems to be DoorBuster sales.
Until it is copyrighted by some schmuck company.