I've been thinking..........

Mundane Pointless Stuff I Must Share (MPSIMS)
1

You know, it seems to me that the SDMB is slowly becoming less than it was, certainly less than it could be. Now, please ‘hear’ me out. I joined this board for the wonderful, amazing people I found here, and a prevailing attitude I found most refreshing. Everyone was accepted, regardless of looks, background, religious ideas, politics, whatever. All voices were heard, and given equal merit. The occasional troll notwithstanding, all were given a chance to say what they had to say, in the appropriate forum. In fact, that’s one of the things I liked, that there is a forum for everything under the sun, including the Pit, which as all know, I hate to go to, and have never posted in. Still, I’m glad to know it’s there for those who need to vent.

Now, to get to what has prompted me to say all this. I found out that my dear friend Danielinthewolvesden was banned from this board. For things he almost said in the Pit. I have researched as much as my time has allowed, and can find nothing worth banning him for. He didn’t make some wise moves with some of his comments, that’s certainly true. He could have explained his intent on using a certain word better, perhaps. None of that should have gotten him banned, especially the way it did. It seemed to me, and to a few others I spoke to, that the real reason was he ticked off the wrong Moderator/Admin at the wrong time. Or once too many times.

I cannot agree with that decision. ESPECIALLY considering the worst of what he said was in the BBQ Pit! I have always been told that what is said in the Pit STAYS in the Pit. Granted, I don’t agree with all he said there, and he did come perilously close to calling someone a heinous name. But, from what I could see, considering some of the other things being said about him, in that very thread, that was not enough to get him banned for. Censured, yes. Put on probation, perhaps, fine. But banned? Overkill, IMO.

Now, I’ll be the first to say that perhaps I’m missing something here. Granted. If so, please feel free to point out to me specific posts of his, and I’ll read them. I don’t have time right now to read entire threads, unfortunately.

My point is that I’m wondering now about myself, and several of my friends on here. Who will be next? Will they <or I for that matter> be given a truly fair shake? What if a certain poster posts some of his evil nasty comments again, and I see it? I can guarantee you that I WILL say something, and it won’t be pretty. I cannot stand by and idly watch a dear friend be hurt by hateful words. I wouldn’t be able to face myself in the mirror. Yet, since it would have little if anything to do with what is on the board, but rather person IRL stuff, I would be slapped on the wrist for it, no doubt. At least, that’s what I hope would happen, since my worst wouldn’t even rate a ripple in the Pit.

Now, I’m beginning to wonder. What in the world did Daniel do that was so evil? Yes, I know what he implied about someone in the Pit. Look at the smear job that was being done to him too, by these same people. They didn’t even get a token slap, that I could find. And, to tell you the truth, how bad can someone be who only posts happy, friendly stuff in MPSIMS and IMHO? Who goes out of his way to lend a helping hand via email, and has his sword ready to slay the ugly dragons of life?

I am not saying that at some point he might not have deserved to be banned. Perhaps he couldn’t/wouldn’t change his view, or his outspokenness on that, no matter how offensive to some people. I won’t say he was perfect, none of us are. But, he was a good friend to me, and to others, and he never said anything evil or hurtful in MPSIMS that I saw. He deserved a strong slap on the wrist for what he said. He deserved to be warned and given another true chance to change. He deserved to have his attackers treated the same way, at the very least, for their comments and namecalling of him.

I worry at the changes I see taking place on here. Since Wally died <I miss you so much> it just hasn’t been the same somehow. A lot of the simple joy, and easy comraderie is slowly being eroded away, and it hurts me to see it. More distrust, more silliness, more putting others down, more intolerance. Saddens me greatly. Banning DITWD is just one more symptom of a disease killing this great place from the inside out. Less helping each other, leaning on each other, being true friends. How can we stop it? Am I the only one who even wants to? Others have told me in chats that they see it too. So many newbies who don’t want to find out what the real heart of this place has always been. So many oldtimers just leaving, perhaps because of these things.

Just my thoughts. Agree or disagree as you see fit. Thanks for reading this. It’s been on my heart and mind for weeks now, and I had to get it out.

2

I’m really not qualified to say anything on Daniel’s banning. I don’t know what went on behind the scenes–I don’t want to know. Heavy is the head that wears the crown.

That said, I think the SDMB is becoming a more bitter, meaner place. (Yeah, I know, I could be lots nicer, too, and I’m going to make an honest effort.) A lot of feelings are hurt here, several things are said that shouldn’t be, and many seemingly innocuous things are worked into a frenzy.

I like the people here…there’s not a poster I don’t like. Maybe some hold grudges against me…that’s fine. I’m not perfect…purplebear, maybe we agree on the fact that this place isn’t as happy as it used to be. I don’t know what it is, either. The only thing I know is that the only way I can change it is by changing myself.

You’re a good woman, purp. I admire you, for what it’s worth. {{{purplebear}}}

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It’s my understanding that Daniel was not banned for posts in the Pit directly, but rather stemming from a number of threads in GD. I haven’t read every single one of those threads, but from skimming some of them, it appears that he was given multiple warnings that his behavior was out of line, and he continued. I haven’t seen anyone get banned arbitrarily around here. You seem to have gotten the impression that he was banned for simply defending himself against an unprovoked attack, but from what I’ve read, the Pit threads that were started about him came about because he attacked people in GD first.

I understand that Daniel is your friend, and he certainly might be the nicest guy in the world IRL, and I indeed have never seen him post anything unkind in MPSIMS or IMHO, but it truly does appear to me that his actions in GD and the Pit had to be dealt with rather harshly because he refused to heed the warnings that were given him. This thread, if you haven’t read it yet, is the final one and I think it is a pretty good summation of the entire situation. Being loyal to one’s friends is a wonderful trait to have, but sometimes we have to look at our friends with an unbiased eye and see that at times they can be wrong.

I think our community here is still a pretty nice place to be. Maybe the moderators are sometimes a little less lenient than they used to be, but you have to remember how much this place has grown. I’ve been here almost a year, and in that time the membership has more than doubled. So it’s not as cozy as it was when it was smaller, but folks are still willing to lend a helping hand or sympathetic ear.

You’re a sweet, wonderful woman, and one of the true assets of this board, so know that you are appreciated around here. {{{{{purplebear}}}}}

4

Hmmmm…

food for thought indeed. I know nothing about all that led up to DITWD being banned, and quite frankly, I don’t have the time to research it down. besides, that would have too much the flavour of Monday night quarterbacking. The mods have a tough row to hoe, and I believe they do the best they can, and don’t operate in a vacuum.
Having said that, I’ll agree that the board has changed, perhaps not for the better, but that change is a function of it’s growth, more than anything else. It behooves board members to keep it together. It will grow or disintegrate largely on it’s own merits. As far as it becoming meaner, I’m not so sure. I’ve had run ins with people here, and much of it was over my own issues; I genuinely harbour no ill will toward anyone here, and will pledge here and now to be a better member. I haven’t been posting or even reading as much due to my life being very packed at this time; my BS has to take center stage for the next couple of years.
I will however, not leave; the SDMB is still a great place, and I have many more cheap shots to take at our favourite Swabbie! :wink:

5

Nice smiley, wingnut.

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I think this thread can go two ways. It can either become a discussion on how the SDMB has changed over the months/years. In that case, all is well, and it stays here.
OR it becomes a debate about the banning of DITWD, since the OP seems to feel strongly about that. It’s my duty to tell you that should the discussion follow the latter patern, this thread will be moved to the Pit - where discussions and complaints about moderator/administrator actions go.
Since I know that that isn’t purplebear’s intent, I would advise those in the need to do a little research on DITWD’s GD and Pit threads prior to his banning. They illustrate quite clearly why he isn’t posting anymore.

This is by no means a threat or a warning, as I am fully aware that purplebear means well with her OP. It’s more of a guideline, shall we say. OK, this ends the moderator bit. As you were. :wink:

My take on this -to steer things in the right direction- is that with an evergroing populace, the need for clear and equally enforced rules becomes greater. Maybe not the most desirable effect, and maybe not what we had in mind a year ago. But the place would be a nuthouse (if it isn’t already ;)) without these rules, and the way they’re enforced.

Having said that, I still consider the SDMB a great place to have fun, and learn something while you’re at it. It’s different than a year ago, but it isn’t necessarily worse in my eyes.

7

I have to go both ways on this one. I think that the level of discussion in GD is much better nowadays (to clarify, that statement has absolutely NOTHING to do with DITWD - I have always respected him). A couple of weeks ago, there were at least 4 threads that I was paying very close attention to - and as I usually have little time to do the research necessary to really compose a good GD post, I wasn’t really involved in them. But I was rivetted with the discussion.

But I have to go with purp here on the comraderie angle. There have been so many regulars (not that regulars are a necessary element, its just that the regulars that I have in mind all know each other quite well, which added a huge element of community) who have drastically reduced their frequency here that it is not the same as when I joined a year ago. Granted, there have been a great number of users who have joined since then that really add a great contribution of quality to this board, its just not the same.

I’ve always been a fringe poster here. I don’t have many discussions with others, I don’t inquire about people personally, and neither do others for me. I have absolutely no problem with that. But I don’t see that happening with other posters, either.

It may have something to do with the fact that a lot of the old posters that I’ve always admired have become mods. I would imagine that that transition would definitely affect your posting style, as well as the frequency of posts that aren’t moderator-ish.

Either way, I’m still here, and don’t see myself leaving anytime soon. Its still too much damn fun to leave now!

8

Slight Hijack…I don’t live here, only check in once in a while, but when the heck did Satan get banned? I am sooo out of touch.

Coldfire: please don’t send this to the pit, I am no match for those guys. :slight_smile:

9

LOL! Bait a squid and he will bite…

Hope all is well with you, Chiefy; How’s Skirmy?

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Thank you very much, Nocturne, for your words of support. I don’t know you that well yet, but I hope that changes. You also said:

A lot of feelings are hurt here, several things are said that shouldn’t be, and many seemingly innocuous things are worked into a frenzy.
I like the people here…there’s not a poster I don’t like. Maybe some hold grudges against me…that’s fine. I’m not perfect…purplebear, maybe we agree on the fact that this place isn’t as happy as it used to be. I don’t know what it is, either. The only thing I know is that the only way I can change it is by changing myself.

I agree with this. That’s why I no longer post to some of the fluff threads, and I refuse to go to the Pit. Especially your last sentence, so that is what I try to do. Think before posting, consider others’ feelings, encourage, hug, and try to spread a little joy along the way.

Geobabe, you’re a sweet lady, and very much an asset to this board. I’m humbled that you consider me one as well. I have checked out that thread, and see what you mean. I still stand by my assertion that he was not treated totally fairly, for whatever reason. The others involved were allowed to attack him without so much as a verbal slap. Either the behavior is wrong for all, or for no one.
You also said:
*Being loyal to one’s friends is a wonderful trait to have, but sometimes we have to look at our friends with an unbiased eye and see that at times they can be wrong.

I think our community here is still a pretty nice place to be. Maybe the moderators are sometimes a little less lenient than they used to be, but you have to remember how much this place has grown. I’ve been here almost a year, and in that time the membership has more than doubled. So it’s not as cozy as it was when it was smaller, but folks are still willing to lend a helping hand or sympathetic ear. *

Agreed. That’s why I’m still here; I like this place, and want to keep it a wonderful place to hang out, away from life’s stresses.
Thank you, VB, for that. I agree, the board’s not so much a meaner place as a less tolerant one, perhaps. Quicker to judge, in some cases, leaping to assumptions about people in others. I’m sorry to say that I’m guilty of that as well, and I will strive to correct that. You said:
The mods have a tough row to hoe, and I believe they do the best they can, and don’t operate in a vacuum.
It behooves board members to keep it together. It will grow or disintegrate largely on it’s own merits.
I agree most of all with these statements. They do, and they do an outstanding job 99.9% of the time. No one is perfect. It is up to us, all of us, to keep this place the wonderful, amazing, enlightening, caring place it was when we first joined; and to strive always to improve it where we can, and to welcome the new posters with open arms.

11

Coldfire says in part: *My take on this -to steer things in the right direction- is that with an evergroing populace, the need for clear and equally enforced rules becomes greater. Maybe not the most desirable effect, and maybe not what we had in mind a year ago. But the place would be a nuthouse (if it isn’t already ) without these rules, and the way they’re enforced.

Having said that, I still consider the SDMB a great place to have fun, and learn something while you’re at it. It’s different than a year ago, but it isn’t necessarily worse in my eyes.*

First, I do feel strongly about the banning of DITWD, and I know that MPSIMS isn’t the place for that discussion. I also know that I truly do not want to post in the Pit, but I wanted my feelings on this topic known. I’d prefer to keep this thread a discussion about the changes we all see happening here, and what, if anything, we can and/or should do about them.
I agree about needing clear and equally enforced rules, we wouldn’t long function without them; or the trolls would run amok again. half-serious smile It is still a great place to have fun and learn, as I’ve already said. I guess my main point in all this is I’d like to keep it that way.

Conner:
But I have to go with purp here on the comraderie angle. There have been so many regulars (not that regulars are a necessary element, its just that the regulars that I have in mind all know each other quite well, which added a huge element of community) who have drastically reduced their frequency here that it is not the same as when I joined a year ago. Granted, there have been a great number of users who have joined since then that really add a great contribution of quality to this board, its just not the same.

Yes, exactly what I mean, and part of why I’m one of those regulars who no longer posts as often <though in my case, the main reason is an increasingly busy personal life, like VB>. I miss that sense of family, community, and I’d like to get it back. I think the newbies all have things to contribute, and I look forward to getting to know those I haven’t met yet. Still, as you say, it’s not the same anymore.
So, please help me to make it stronger again, all of you. We can do this, but only together.

Many Crows, I don’t know myself, was wondering. He’s only been nice to me, and a friend. I’m no match for the Pitsters either, rest assured.

Chieffy, my dear man. How is Skirmy? As to the rest, I can only say:
:o :smiley: :stuck_out_tongue: giggles

In case you haven’t, please notice my new quote in my sig. I think it really applies here, especially now.

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I have been thinking about this too, I know part of it is due to the inevitable growth of the boards, when I joined it was a lot easier to keep track of everything and everyone. Now we have five times as many posters as before and I’m afraid that this growth has caused a dilution in the sense of community we once felt. Unfortunately this dilution has also caused us to become more suspicious. Is that new person who is posting everywhere another reincarnation of a banned poster??? Am I going to be noticed when I first join the boards, I feel like I am being ignored so I will post something that will gain attention even if it is negative. Some of this can be attributed to the natural need for us all to fit in, and some of it can be attributed to the style of the people here.

I know that I value the sense of community here and that is the main reason I come back here. I have developed friendships here and I have come to appreciate the contributions of other people from different backgrounds. My close friends on this board are a mix of some of the regulars from when I joined as well as some of the new people, and that is something I appreciate.

Unfortunately the lack of civility that you are talking about is something that I have seen too. It seems that too many people are out to win arguments at any cost, damn the consequences. Unfortunately that is caused partially by people who don’t realize that this is a community and that we should be civil to people that disagree with us on one point because they may support us on another. Some of that will be gained with experience on the board as they understand the sense of community. I know that some people on this board who started out as trolls stopped when they realized what this place was like and they have become valued members of the board whose comments I appreciate hearing.

If anyone is still reading this I would like to say that I don’t usually get this philosophical, its just a combination of things that has caused me to think of this.

Keith

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Odieman says:
*I know that I value the sense of community here and that is the main reason I come back here. I have developed friendships here and I have come to appreciate the contributions of other people from different backgrounds. My close friends on this board are a mix of some of the regulars from when I joined as well as some of the new people, and that is something I appreciate.

Unfortunately the lack of civility that you are talking about is something that I have seen too. It seems that too many people are out to win arguments at any cost, damn the consequences. Unfortunately that is caused partially by people who don’t realize that this is a community and that we should be civil to people that disagree with us on one point because they may support us on another. Some of that will be gained with experience on the board as they understand the sense of community. I know that some people on this board who started out as trolls stopped when they realized what this place was like and they have become valued members of the board whose comments I appreciate hearing.*

Thank you, Keith, for putting in better words part of what I have been trying to say with this thread. This is how I feel, yes. I’d like to think that the vast majority of us feel this way also, thereby making this board more valuable than ever to keep and rebuild into what it was and can be again. We all, newbies, regulars, oldtimers, need to work together, and remember this is a community.

{{{{{{{{All Dopers}}}}}}}}