I’m one of the people who bashed skulls with Dio over polyamory in another thread but I’m going to have to join with the chorus.
It all seems like emotional blackmail to me. I don’t think this is healthy for them or their children.
Yes, we have provided Stoid with scads of evidence that polygamy, as practiced by those weird cults- is very very bad for everyone but the “Husband”, there’s child abuse, incest, pedophilia, welfare fraud, and everything. That’s what occurs, that’s what the Court documents and investigations show.
But then the Op sees a select family, carefully polished and scripted, where everyones agree they are NOT the usual “mormon-type” Poly family (on the surface)- and then Stoid decides that that sort of Poly family is a great way to raise a family.
Thank you!
Well, first of all…we disagree that this IS the situation in that house, but for the sake of argument let’s say it is.
POLYGAMY HAS NOTHING WHATSOEVER TO DO WITH IT
MILLIONS of men in MILLIONS of marriages make ALL the rules for their wives!
You are focusing on the fact that in this particular marriage, his power to do things they can’t includes taking on a new spouse as though ****the act ****of taking on the additional spouse is the source of the power inequity!! This is what’s known as ass-backwards.
Correlation vs. Causation…polygamy did not give him power over the relationship. His power over the relationship includes the power to have additional wives.
Bitch about (what you perceive to be…) his unfair power, but don’t blame it on polygamy.
And never forget that the wives choose it. This is not a compound, they are not forced, blah…blah…blah… As you said yourself, they let him have that power.
Just like millions of other women who surrender their power to the men in their lives. It’s as common as a thing can be.
Maybe the reason its so hard for you to wrap your head around is because for so many women the only power they retain is the power to demand fidelity, and seeing women give up that particular power looks like total capitulation. But it really isn’t. In fact, these women struck me as much stronger, overall, because they have each other. It’s 3-4 against big dumb Kody, and it’s almost like they’ve reversed the usual dynamic: the only power HE retains is this power over their sexual lives… in every other way, they are the real power.
That’s the thing that kinda creeped ME out: there was an element of sperm donor/stud going on. I got the distinct impression, because he IS such a goofyass, that these women have the hots for him in a bigger way than the usual polygamous family seems to. He’s definitely much better looking than the guys you usually see in this situation. And because he comes off as so damn stupid and silly, I didn’t get the impression that he had much power at all, more like the clueless quarterback that all the girls have the hots for, and all the girls manipulate the hell out of. He’s happy getting laid and playing with the kids.
Yeah, I was in that thread, too. I think the fact that a bunch of us who have disagreed with him on poly topics before are still agreeing here that the relationship in question is unhealthy says a lot.
However, it does. Your OP was that based entirely upon watching a one hour interview of THIS Poly family, that “** I’ve decided polygamy is an excellent way to raise a family”**. Thus if this Poly family sux (and all of those weird heritic mormon cults have very abusive sad families), then Poly sux.
In actuality, as I (and others ) have said- there are many happy healthy Poly famiies out there. It can indeed work, and work very well for some.
But if the reason the woman is in a Poly family is because she’s been brainwashed and ordered to do so, then no, it is disfunctional and even evil. 100% of the heritic mormon cult poly families are like that, even tho they carefully picked one that looks good on the surface.
So- Poly can work, if it is indeed a matter of free and informed choice. It’s not that way in this family.
Yes, and I’ve never disagreed in the slightest with any of it.
What I disagree with is the completely illogical conclusion that practicing polygamy, in and of itself, by itself, leads to every bad thing that is associated with the weird people who practice it in a totally fucked up way as part of a completely fucked up way of life.
And no one has provided a shred of evidence to support the contention that the practice of plural marriage is the cause of all the other fucked up things. Because they can’t. Because it isn’t. Because that makes no sense of any kind. See my previous post.
[quote=“DrDeth, post:205, topic:557218”]
YES.
IT.
IS.
It even includes one wife who was raised completely apart from any poly influence of ANY kind, and her family was mortified by her choice to marry this way. So how you can possibly imagine that she did not make a free and informed choice to do this is beyond belief.
By the way… this doesn’t even make any sense. You quote me making the point that polygamy does not confer power, then say absolutely nothing to refute that.
And you go on to say that poly can work very well.
So what the hell is your issue? You just disagree with my assessment that this particular family falls into the category of families for whom it works well? Why spend the energy if you agree that it CAN work, whether you think this family is a great example or not?? 
Especially since my point was that polygamy can work very well?
Because it’s like someone saying socialized healthcare can work and then holding up a reality show that takes place in Cuba as an example of utopia. Sure, polygamy can work, but you’re not talking about polygamy in general. Your sole example and the subject of your OP is of members of a polygynous religious cult that have a reality show.
Happy, healthy poly families exist out there, but it’s a whole different creature than what you’re talking about.
I don’t know where you got two, only one of them was pregnant. But even so, I never cried through my pregnancies or my wedding. I’m still skeptical that regular life should inspire so many tears.
Sorry, I just simply don’t believe that if you had a monogamous friend who told you that they like to set themselves up to get hurt in relationships because it ultimately makes them a stronger, better person that you would think that seemed like a healthy thing to do. And I don’t actually see anything they’ve gained that they couldn’t equally gain through some great friendships.
None of the husbands I know are anywhere close to that clueless. You’d think he’d catch on faster, having 4 wives to give him a cluebat to the head. He’s not just clueless, he’s outright ignoring the things they say to him. That’s not being clueless, that’s being an asshole.
I didn’t say they were teaching it, I said they were modeling it. Which is just as bad, perhaps worse, since it’s much more insidious and harder to reject outright. And, yes, she wants to go to Annapolis, which is awesome, and they are great to encourage her. But I never said they’re modeling traditional roles in terms of careers, I said they’re modeling traditional roles in terms of relationships. She could be career military and still take her marching orders from her husband at home, and she’ll have learned that by seeing her mother do it.
Right. And I’m against it whereever it happens to turn up.
I didn’t see them as all wanting it. I saw some kind of twisted game Meri plays with herself where she sets her husband up with people and then gnashes her teeth and gives him guilt trips over it. I saw Christine upset cause the deal was practically done before she even had a chance to meet this new person so she could be sure she liked her and thought she would fit in. I saw a guy who fell in love and was going to move ahead with it no matter what his wives thought. Here’s the big thing you don’t seem to get about this family. *He can marry anyone else he wants and bring them into the family any time he wants. And it doesn’t matter if any of them object. It’s his perogative. * One or more wives could have a strenuous objection for any number of reasons, and it does not matter. Their happiness doesn’t really matter in this relationship, only his does. That’s what Diogenes has been saying to you, that their role is to serve him in making him happy, but it doesn’t go the other way. How this is supposed to be healthy or appropriate, I don’t know.
Yeah, and I think those guys suck, too.
I’m not. YOU were the one who said that THIS marriage is a great example of polygamy. I say it isn’t, because there are fundamental power inequities built into it. I’m not against the poly lifestyle per se, I’d just like a better example of one in which the power is distributed equally.
Why does that make it OK? Why isn’t that telling you something about the way we raise girls in this society to consider themselves deserving of nothing better?
Well, that sounds healthy.
Actually, that’s what I’m trying to do - is explain why a plural marriage has less chance of being successful than a traditional one. The more people involved in a relationship, the more opportunities there are for someone to flake out and betray trust. The more sides there are to take, the more disagreements on how to raise the children. Particularly when you are talking about a marriage of equals. In part, the FDLS style of polygamy works because there is someone with whom the buck stops - and divorce is a last resort. Pull it out in the real world and it takes unusual people to make it work - people who are very willing to make compromises and put the family before their own needs. The level of commitment required is multiplied by at least the number of adults involved.
For instance, I’ve watched a poly marriage fall apart when several members would like to bring in a specific new person, but one or two of the existing spouses didn’t approve. Sometimes some of the core remains, but adults enter and leave the marriage over the course of the kids’ childhoods - that isn’t exactly stable.
Still waiting for an answer.
But they’re totally happy. Can’t you see? They’re crying and freaking out whenever their husband kisses another woman and tearing each other down.
And you haven’t “provided a shred of evidence” to support YOUR statement that “polygamy is an EXCELLENT way to raise a family.” Other than watching an hour of Oprah.
Holy crap, I started this thread to say that I think it can work great. I came to this conclusion watching this family. It was the CONCLUSION that I was sharing, not some rigid, immovable declaration that this family must be held up by all as the ultimate expression of an ideal poly lifestyle! Evidently a lot of people agree with my conclusion.
Sheesh.
Right. You came to this conclussion seeing said family interviewed on Oprah. Mmkay.
“Sheesh” indeed.
Your conclusion was uninformed, unsupported and frankly, ridiculous.
It’s not regular life. It’s pregnant and adding a new wife after sixteen years life.
And apart from that, you are obviously not a teary person, and that’s fine. I am, and I’m telling you: it does not mean that a person is miserable. You and your life experience are not the standard against which all people should be measured, nor am I. We are all different.
That’s not a really accurate way of stating what they are doing.
Lots of things in life can make you feel both good and bad, and depending on the weight of each, you choose to have the thing or not.
They have chosen to embrace the benefits of a polygamous life. It makes them happy and fulfilled. But it entails some sacrifice, too - it means dealing with jealousy.
Having decided you want the benefits and you know that you are not impervious to feelings of jealousy, what are you going to do with it? Wallow? Bitch, complain, whine, dwell? Or recognize that jealousy is an unproductive and unattractive emotion to begin with, and look upon this as an opportunity to shed that?
Some people don’t have any issue with jealousy. They think it’s a valid emotion that signals a problem, perhaps, so they are ok with the fact that they react in a jealous way to things that are reasonably expected to trigger jealousy, and see no need to change that, only change the thing that triggers the jealous response.
Other people, like these women, dislike the jealous response in themselves. They don’t want to react like that to begin with, because they do not wish to be rid of the thing that triggers the response! They like that thing for the most part, they just don’t like feeling that way. So they are choosing to change their feelings.
You, because you are not interested in a polygamous life, think that the only right answer is to remove the trigger, not modify the response. But they do not view the trigger as the problem, they view their response as the problem.
It’s really not that uncommon for people to put themselves in positions that are unpleasant so they can overcome the feelings they have about them. If you don’ like the way you react to something, the way to deal with it is to confront the thing that makes you react that way and teach yourself not to.
Consider that some people might not like the way they get angry or fearful over certain things. So they confront the thing that makes them angry or fearful in order to desensitize themselves and stop having the unwanted emotional response.
You can change your feelings, or you can change your circumstance. If you like a lot of things about your circumstance, it seems pretty logical you should do what you can to change the feelings that interfere.
You are incorrect. They were very clear about it on Oprah, less so in the show, but there’s no question that no new wife can be added without the rest of the other wives approving. And the other wives did and do approve.
Kids seem very healthy and happy to me. YMMV.