Teens rally for polygamy

Link.

The thing that really strikes me about this is that they are all kids. No one is in a polygamist marriage and supporting it (not to say that they wouldn’t). I like where they claimed not to be brainwashed or anything, but the fact that they are all children makes it easy to argue otherwise. Any thoughts?

And as an aside, isn’t this really about polygyny, not polygamy? I was under the impression that Mormon Fundies only approved of multiple wives. Is this right?

No, I don’t hate polygamists or think that these kids are brainwashed any more than other kids.

Personally I believe adults should be able to live in whatever arrangements they want, in whatever size groups they want.

There do have to be some kind of limits, or maybe requirements, to form a “family” – or you end up with things like white supremacists taking over a town, calling themselves a family, and not letting anybody else in. Perhaps some kind of merging of assets or property would suffice to keep pretenders from forming their own little closed societies. But I guess that’s more or less whay Jonestown and the Branch Davidians did, which maybe wasn’t for the best. :rolleyes:

But I think if you believe in personal freedom among consenting adults, you more or less have to support the concept of polygamy.

Being single myself, I also believe there should not be any financial or other legal benefits/detriments as a result of your choice to marry or not. I think this can be separated from the choice of having or raising a child, which is something the government has some business supporting.

Riiiiight. Because nobody who believes in personal freedom could possibly be against polygamy. :rolleyes:

I should clarify that I’m not trying to start a debate on the merits of polygamy, I just really dislike it when people post “If you care about freedom/ believe in freedom/ value freedom, you must agree with .” It’s right up there with “If you don’t support , the terrorists have won” – and it’s trotted out almost as often.

That said, there’s a little reading on the subject here and here.

Well, there’s a difference between merely being against something and actually wanting to ban its practice by others.

I am solidly against religion, for example, finding all of its forms equally evil and distasteful. Nonetheless, I would under no circumstances want the freedom of religion to be restricted in any way. As long as they’re not bugging me or hurting anyone, I don’t care what people do on their own time.

Same thing with polygamy, for me. I don’t want multiple wives, but if my neighbor maintains a harem, as long as everyone’s a consenting adult, I don’t care.

What **friedo ** said.

They are all children from polygamist homes. Why wouldn’t they defend their lifestyle? I probably would, if I were in that situation. They’re young and impressionable and probably all they have known is what they know now.

They’re just kids upset about the government coming down on their parents. They just want a peaceful life. Why shouldn’t they be bitching about this? Their parents may lead an odd lifestyle, but I’m guessing that all the parents care about their kids. I’d be pissed if the government went after my parents based on how many beds they shared with others. If i were 18, I’d be like wtf?

Ehh, I’m torn on this issue. On one hand, who the fuck cares what other people do anyway? As long as it’s a situation between consenting adults who freely chose to associate in a polygamous marriage, then like I said, why should anyone care? The problem with polygamy is that from what I understand it tends to lend itself to abuse. For every story you read about normal, happy kids like the ones linked in the OP, there are stories of misogyny and of women forced into marriages at young ages. I know anecdote =/ data, and I am sure that there are some multiple spouse households where everyone is just as pleased as punch (if they were Scientologists, I suppose they’d be as happy as clams. :smiley: ), but it seems to me that the abuses are numerous enough to be a genuine concern when considering weather to outlaw the practice or not. I’m not saying that people can’t have a happy, healthy plural marriage, but if a significant percentage of plural marriages involve coercion or worse, than that needs to be considered. I also think that it’s gotta go both ways. In my mind, for polygamy to be a viable marriage option and not a method of oppressing women or “keeping them in their place” or using them primarily as breeding machines then there have to be women with more than one husband too. I wonder why you never see people pushing for that?

So, if a group of teens held a rally promoting monogamy, would there be a question as to whether or not they’ve been ‘brainwashed’ or even are just young and impressionable?

People who view it from their moral high-horse ought to realize that they have some pretty thick cultural goggles in their way. Just because it’s seen as immoral and weird in the US doesn’t mean that it is so.

A clear majority of world cultures either allow or actively support polygamous marriage; it’s not just Muslims and Mormons. Polyandry is rare, so this most often takes the form of polygyny. Even within those cultures, having more than one wife is usually fairly rare and is a sign that the husband is capable of supporting them. All cultures have rules that govern marriage, and that holds true for those that practice polygamy. For example, the Koran sets rules for how the wives are to be treated, particularly materially.

Some of the reasons for polygamy are economic and practical. In one of the few places that still practices polyandry, northern Nepal, both trade and herding are important for economic success. If the man is away trading, he can’t be herding or farming; if he’s herding or farming, he can’t travel for trade. Usually, two brothers will get together and choose a woman to marry. Sometimes, they will take on another wife too, creating a group marriage. The main reason for this, according to them, is to prevent their very limited land from being split up among too many heirs. In other words, it’s economic. It also has the effect of limiting population to available resources.

In many cultures women bring a dowry, and in all cultures marriage solidifies relationships. That friend of a friend who helps you out finding a job would have more of a vested interest if he were a relative by marriage to one of your wives. Multiple wives share multiple duties, taking the roles of maids, nannies, and other household services which the well-off among us hire non-family members to do in our society. How many people in the West have kids who are raised mostly by strangers? How many people can afford to pay for all those services mentioned above? In agricultural societies, more children mean more hands available to do the work. Having a large family might be the difference between having a comfortable dotage and having your few children abandon you and the uncomfortable borderline poverty you raised them in by the time you’re old.

In the US and Europe, multiple marriage or some form of it often exists anyway. When I was a kid, many of my friends were envious that my parents hadn’t been divorced. A quick glance at the divorce statistics shows that many, many children are raised by more than one set of parents. In some cultures, mistresses are almost a requirement of success. (A French acquaintance joked about the Clinton scandal, “if someone as powerful as the President did not have a mistress, we would question his sexuality.”) Even in the puritanical US of A, a divorce due to focussing on a career, and a subsequent marriage to a second (usually younger) wife is seen as one of the penalties and perqs of being a successful businessman.

Personally, from all the difficulties I’ve seen in ethnologies about and literature from many different cultures, I wouldn’t want a polygamous marriage. Trying to balance everything is hard work. You’ve got to be more of a go-getter than I am to keep two or more women happy, even in cultures that grew up with those ideals. Handling the lower demands of a wife and a mistress would probably be more trouble than it’s worth too.

So, I’ve got no problem with other people doing it — certainly no moral objections —and I see the advantages inherent in the system, but I don’t think I’d want two wives. I don’t even want to picture what a headache the four maximum Islam limits a man to would be. (I mean, every time you bought a thoughtful little gift for one, you’d have to get the equivalent for the rest. Fegh, no thanks, I’m not thoughtful enough, successful enough, or imaginative enough for that.) I may joke with my fiancee that she can pick my second wife to help her when I’m rich and powerful, but the social realities make it clear to me that I’d rather it stayed a joke.

My only objection is that, in the US at least, many of these extended families end up on welfare. The plural wives say they are unmarried for purposes of getting federal and local aid for themselves and their children. Why should I have to pay for their lifestyle?

StG

Weirddave, if abuse is your concern, I would suggest that there is more than enogh abuse in “normal” families to go around. It’s arguable that abise in polygamous families might be lower by virtue of having more adults around in position to stop it.

But I don’t have any actual data either, si we’ll just agree to disagree. My point is that I don’t see anything about the structure of polygamy istelf that would make abuse more or less likely. It’s possible there IS something about the personalities of those who enter into polygamous relationships to be more likely to dish out or tolerate anise. Especially the religious types who buy into the man’s role as “master of the house” and the subservience of women.

Jim,

Since that is the context of most polygamous marriages in the U.S., that is what I’m talking about.

If you are interested in learning more about the topic, two good books are Under the Banner of Heaven by Jonathan Krakauer and Desert Wives, a well-researched work of fiction by Betty Webb.

I too find the abuse of the welfare system by these families distasteful. That and coercian into early marriages. I have some sympathy for the argument that consenting adults should be able to have a plural marriage if they want to, and most of the really unpleasant consequences could probably be addressed under other laws (welfare, abuse, incest). But what might be ok in theory seems to be very far from ok in practice.

And sleel, cite??? “A clear majority of world cultures either allow or actively support polygamous marriage.”

A tolerance for infidelity or divorce is very different from polygamous marriage.

This is not remotely the same thing as polygamy.

They like fennel, too. The sick bastards.

Polygyny and polyandry are practiced in Bhutan although polyandry is now beingrestricted. The current King has four wives, all sisters. One hopes that Royal cousin marriage never really takes off in this clan :wink:

Because one husband is quite enough hassle, so none of us want another one? :stuck_out_tongue:

Sorry, couldn’t restrain myself…

I didn’t say that I thought they were brainwashed any more than other kids are. By that I mean that you are basically taught by your family that they way you live is best, be it polygamist, vegetarian, redneck, homosexual, whatever. A lot of cultures do (or used to) approve of polygamy for various economical, social, and political reasons. I just really wanted to know what other people thought of this. I’m personally torn between what I’ve been taught and what I think for myself.